LebGeeks

Tech Guru

Member

4k 120hz Awesomeness

How Far Cry 5 & AC Origins Are Meant to be Played:

2160p
Ultra Image Settings
120hz

We are in 2018 where high end TVs are capable .

Thank you Sony you nail with the X930E a high end versatile TV that Costed me 1900USD for the 55inch model that can do 2160p @ 120hz ( Thank to its Native 120 hz panel and X1 Extreme Chip) and very capable HDR TV set that meets HDR 10 requirements that most 4K TVs and PC monitor market themselves they are HDR capable but they do not all the following HDR 10 requirements :

Native 10 bit Panel
1000 nits and above of Real Scene HDR Brightness
0.05 Nits of Blacks (Efficient Local dimming)
Wide Color Gamut covering 80 % and more of DCI P3 and Rec 2020 Color Space
No Color Banding / Clipping

A  1080ti (Asus Strix Gaming OC) is a capable card too for these resolution / settings \ OC to 2012 mhz clock - Stable

Input Lag is very minimal ~14ms  , I did not feel it especially on 120hz. Very responsive experience. I disabled in games Vsync and enabled Fast Sync in Nvidia Control Panel.

HDMI 2.0 bandwidth allow to do 2160p 120hz 8bit 4 2 0 (3840 *2160 * 8 * 1.5 (4 2 0 sampling 3*2/4 = 3 *1/2 = 1.5) <18 Gbps HDMI 2.0   if the tv is capable out outputting the signal and without artiifacts / frame skipping. Some tvs like the LG C8 oled can out 120hz @ 1080p not more knowing that both the x930e and C7 have a native 120hz panel. The X1 Extreme Chip on the Sony Is Awesome.

1st on custom resolution signal acceptance ( Through Nvidia Control Panel Custom Resolution - 3840 ×2160p @ 120hz )

2nd on frame skipping to see if it is real 120hz without frame-skipping through testufo - and by setting the camera exposure to at least 1/10 to detect very fast frames being displayed - no screen shots can be taken.

The HDMI  Organization  do not mention that HDMI 2.0 can do 2160p@120hz as if it being capped to 2106 @ 60hz , similar to HDMI 1.4 days , as if being capped to 2160p @ 30hz but you can actually do 2160p @ 60hz at 4 2 0 , in actual gaming 4 4 4 vs 4 2 0 is not very impacting according to Rtings.com - https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling , I think Rting.com missed testing the X930E at 2160p @120hz and tested 1080p@120hz and 1440p@120hz respectively. I think the x930e only TV in the market now with a native 120hz panel and HDMI 2.0 that actually accepts a 2160p 120hz signal without artifacts , problems , or a blank screen.

mmk92

Member

Re: 4k 120hz Awesomeness

This is a duplicate post
https://lebgeeks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=18298
https://lebgeeks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=18236
https://lebgeeks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=18062

Last edited by mmk92 (April 18 2018)

Tech Guru

Member

Re: 4k 120hz Awesomeness

How did you reached it is duplicate post didn't you differentiate when I displayed the new graphics settings I am using 2160p 120 instead of 2160 60 both in Farcry 5 and AC Origins respectively to corrolate the matter of the subject.

LifeEngineer

Member

Re: 4k 120hz Awesomeness

You have the X930E, do you have any idea about the X900E? Is it available in Lebanon? How much approximately it costs?!

rolf

Member

Re: 4k 120hz Awesomeness

Nice screenshots, thanks. As usual the cinematics of the last decade become real-time 3D of today.
But these screenshots are small resolution and sRGB JPEG, so you might as well be playing on a $50 monitor, I can't tell the difference. I must see it in reality!
Also one more comment, I don't understand everything you're describing but 1/10 is not a fast camera exposure, it's slow. If your screen does 120HZ then 1/10 will capture 12 screen refreshes.
Anyway enjoy your setup.

Last edited by rolf (April 19 2018)

Tech Guru

Member

Re: 4k 120hz Awesomeness

Nice screenshots, thanks. As usual the cinematics of the last decade become real-time 3D of today.
But these screenshots are small resolution and sRGB JPEG, so you might as well be playing on a $50 monitor, I can't tell the difference. I must see it in reality!
Also one more comment, I don't understand everything you're describing but 1/10 is not a fast camera exposure, it's slow. If your screen does 120HZ then 1/10 will capture 12 screen refreshes.
Anyway enjoy your setup.

I am not a pro photographer :)I used my phone camera ( S7 Edge) , the aim of this test of you captured 1/10 *120hz = q2 screen refreshes they must be a line with no frame skipping , since if frame skipping is presented it is not a native 120hz rather the screen is using fake inetpolation / fake farme insertions to boost a fake mimick of 120hz. For that aim 1/10 exposure is good for that purpose. The phone can take more than that but the image has white bloom ( no so clear)

Tech Guru

Member

Re: 4k 120hz Awesomeness

You have the X930E, do you have any idea about the X900E? Is it available in Lebanon? How much approximately it costs?!

Yes the 930E , Abed Tahan has both for 1500USD and 2100 USD respectively for the 55inch.

~X930E has the X1 Extreme Processor vs the X 1 on the X900e - better upscaling usually and handling 120hz on higher resolutions ( more that 1080p - no artifacts)

~Better Color Bit Mapping in HDR ( Less Color Banding)

~Much Higher HDR Real Scene Peak Brightness crossing 1000 nits ( which is a core requirement for proper HDR 10) , x900e doesnot cross 1000nits.

~Dobly Vision Support

The x900e is replaced by the x900f this year ( that has the x1 extreme processor like the x930e , but sub x930E performance in HDR Peak Brightness , sound , design)

The x900e it self is a very capable TV and much better than Overpriced Samungs models ( including Qled TVs in 2017)

It has

120 hz native refresh panel , it can do 1080p 120hz and 1440p 120hz - easy without frame skipping

A real 10bit color display ( requirement for proper HDR not 8bit +dithering)

Very Good Full Array Local Dimming ( FALD) making deep blacks in HDR.

Very Good Input Lag on 120hz  1080p / 120hz 2160p / 2160p 60hz 4 4 4 10bit HDR

At the end it is Sony , well known TVs it thie reliability and they are assembled in Malaysia higher QC compared to Samsung TVs / Electronics which are assembled in Egypt and exported to Lebanon).

For A comparative review ( not technical rather Image qaulity) x930e vs x900e vs x900f check this a very good review from HDTVTest :

https://youtu.be/t0GzpKxakZM

Check this two " The importance of HDR Peak Brightness in HDR 10 and Dobly Vision

https://youtu.be/fzrwvJsLIho

Two Quick Facts:

Qled and Micro Led are Sony 1st innovative technologies not Samsung nor LG nor TCL nor...

Sony will always be the leader in AV.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/s … first-look

In 2012 Sony demonstrated the first micro-LED TV (55", Full-HD) which they termed Crystal-LED. Sony's Crystal-LED never reached the market, but in 2016 the company unveiled its large-area outdoor micro-LED displays which Sony calls Canvas Display

Sony  pushed the quantum dot technology in 2013 ( Triluminos Display) ,  that Samsung Adopted in their high end tvs in 2016 (KS and Now Qled) and New  Samsung HG90 , HG 70 , FG 70 ) along with LGs Highend Nano Crystal TVs in 2017 like the SJ 8500 Nanocell , and upcoming gaming monitors  from asus like the pg 35 vq and pg 27 uq.

https://www.theverge.com/2013/1/16/3881 … antum-dots

OLED colors production are the most accurate with infinite contrast and real blacks , and LGs OLEDs have the best HDR Color bitmappping. Howere whether LG , Sony A1E Oled or the upcoming OLEDs the technology itself have some serious drawbacks and more certain can happen:

Image Burning (Burn-In)
Image Retention

Also not serious as the above two but can effect HDR Peak Scene Brightness is OLED brightness is tough to cross 1000nits.

I can tolerate a QLED + an Efficient Local dimming with minimal  blooming , flashligting ,  none real blacks , and not infinate contrast on OLEDs image retention and burn-Ins.

Micro-led is start to regain momentum and I think it will be the future ( Benefits of LEDs + Benefits of OLEDs )

Aly

Member

Re: 4k 120hz Awesomeness

Kudos for the efforts and details you put in your threads :)
I got FC5 running on PC on 1080p 144HZ (not reaching 144 FPS on 1080ti but still pulling a decent 100 + fps), the graphics, environment and overall experience are amazing ... I bet on 4K it is one hell of an enjoyable experience.

LifeEngineer

Member

Re: 4k 120hz Awesomeness

@Tech Guru yeah man thanks for the details as Aly said. You put so much effort and the enthusiasm is showing!
I am very well aware of the burn in issues in OLED TVs and they are overly overpriced so I want to avoid those if possible.
I just checked Rtings and they class the X900E as the best midrange (<1000$) 4K HDR TV at 55". You said 1500$ and that's too much for me.
My fear is that the TCL P607 is not available in Lebanon and the available P6US is just simply not the same and I'm not even sure if it has a decent HDR or not etc...
My experience with my current Samsung has not been great so I dunno. Still looking, maybe Hisense?

Last edited by LifeEngineer (April 19 2018)

rolf

Member

Re: 4k 120hz Awesomeness

I am not a pro photographer :)

I am neither but I'm an amateur.
If you take a 1/10 photo of testufo.com at 120fps then you should be able to count 12 UFOs , because 120 * (1/10) = 12.
I just tried it on my 60hz monitor and could count 6.
I don't know how you can expect to see any lines.

Last edited by rolf (April 19 2018)

Tech Guru

Member

Re: 4k 120hz Awesomeness

@Tech Guru yeah man thanks for the details as Aly said. You put so much effort and the enthusiasm is showing!
I am very well aware of the burn in issues in OLED TVs and they are overly overpriced so I want to avoid those if possible.
I just checked Rtings and they class the X900E as the best midrange (<1000$) 4K HDR TV at 55". You said 1500$ and that's too much for me.
My fear is that the TCL P607 is not available in Lebanon and the available P6US is just simply not the same and I'm not even sure if it has a decent HDR or not etc...
My experience with my current Samsung has not been great so I dunno. Still looking, maybe Hisense?

Mate if you are a gamer and or movie watcher , HDR 10 is increased and bringing a decent HDR capable tv is essential to benefit from it for at least 5 years life cycle. As such the TCL and Hisense lacks behind the x900e in core aspect a native 10 bit panel and a 60hz panel instead of 120 hz as such

HDR wide gamut coverage will be "fake" due to 8 bit + dithering to reach 10 bit.

1,024 shades of each primary color, and over a billion possible colors in real 10 bit colors

Compared to 256 shades of each  primary color and over 16.7 million possible colors

The huge  difference  will make colors more richer and deep on the screen.

In addition the 120hz panel helps in motion sure.

In the Top 10 Best TVs -Spring 2018 according to Rtings.com:

Best Mid-Range 55 inch TV: Sony XBR55X900E

The best mid-range TV we have reviewed is the Sony XBR55X900E 4k LCD TV. It offers great picture quality with an excellent native contrast ratio and is fairly bright. It has good HDR real scene brightness, better than some TVs that are more than twice the price.

It can still compete with many high-end TVs, including many OLEDs. It has low input lag, which is great for gamers, and offers a great picture quality comparable to higher-end models such as the Sony X930E. It doesn't have the same infinite blacks or great viewing angle typical of OLEDs, so it isn't as versatile. 

The X900E has recently been replaced with the X900F. While the 2018 model is a bit brighter, overall there is not enough of an improvement to warrant the almost 50% price difference.

rolf

Member

Re: 4k 120hz Awesomeness

The brightness and contrast matter as well. If you have billions of color on a low-contrast display, it's not going to look very impressive.

I capture photos in raw format, not JPEG. I know that a lot of captured information cannot be displayed on average monitors due to the low dynamic range and low color gamut of the display, both much inferior to that of the the camera.

I am happy about the development of HDR and high-gamut displays, and the increased awareness that they are getting.

Last edited by rolf (April 21 2018)