LebGeeks

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

http://ezinearticles.com/?Fair-Usage-Br … &id=375605

Very clear explanation. Related to UK, but you can see that rules is same.

Padre

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

the only thing that VISP could be blamed for, is not annoucing that is has a FA policy, that's all i guess.

Dark_angel

Banned

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

Yeah, I have read many articles about the "fair usage policy". But you should remember guys that foreign ISPs deliver an internet connection with low latency you guys don't. I don't really blame you it is just the bad internet infrastructure that we have it here in lebanon.

But nowadays internet isn't just browsing the web it is more like entertainment on your desktop. As a gamer, If I can't play games online, I can't stream/download videos ( not only films but programming stuff and such) can't download games demos, music, etc... tell me what should I do? Upgrade to a better account, the ISP here doesn't offer other than 128 KB/s.

But in lebanon, you just have to accept the fact that things can't go right you should deals with anomalies situations and live with it.

And let me tell you one thing, I really appreciate your help nuclearcat you have been a great dude to talk and debate with.

With such restrictions, the internet will definetly lose its meaning. let's just called it outernet.

Last edited by Dark_angel (February 8 2007)

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

As i told, my research in real life (in many countries, when i was working in satellite internet area), shows, the second you announce "unlimited" tariffs recommended limits - customer will suck 'em all. Even he dont want this traffic, most of people think if they pay, they must suck till last drop.

So choice(just example) - you know for sure your limit 1-2gb and your account will stop when it finished, and you know there is a limit, but it is 10gb(and u dont know that) and account just will be with lower speed. Thats it. What is prefferable?

About lebanon... there situation much better. In Cyprus i had collegaues, they like Kazaa a lot... they got DSL from Cyta. Cyta disconnect him sudden after 1 month, and no excuse at all. They just tell "we have no technical availability of service for you". Later over some friends they got info, that it was because they download too much. If country is too civil, ISP will lie for you, if you are uncomfortable customer, but they are scared because of laws.

In Germany, if i'm ISP, first of all you are stuck with me by contract for years, and it is auto-renewable, you just dont have choice to leave me. If in contract not mentioned you need to have all ports opened, i can leave for you IM, web,shaped myspace and etc, and try to download... and you can do nothing. The second you go to court, you fall in the battle for few years, and expirience shows you have choices:
1)Pay hundreds of thousands if you lose the battle, and because you don't have them - go to jail. Because chances to play with professional ISP lawyers and ur lawyer is different, noone taking risk anymore.
2)Pay "disconnection" free, usually few thousands of bucks.
3)Try to find hole in contract, that i will disconnect you. Usually also if ISP very big, they have Fair Usage, if you download more XXX Gb in 3 month - he disconnect you, and pay you "damage" fee, smth about 300-400 bucks.

About latency - not a big issue at all. Yes, we have lost maybe 5-10% of market cause of customers who need decent latency, but with current "fiber" prices and how much they want to pay, it is just "cosmetic" part of customers. There is almost no profit on them with current government prices. First of all because there is no normal "underground" infrastructure to deliver stable latency for customers, air is too "busy" with interference, so even fiber will have 280ms, it will be useless, cause let's say we see on IDM network jitter +-300-400ms, just on local loops. Our network is better, but still because of many hops it will be +-50ms, for broadband customers.
You will say, why on Wigo latency is nice? Because still they didnt reach profit level. Base Station cost more than $100000(for 3G i didnt research how much exactly), customers amount must be near maximum to follow business plan. And as far as i know, latency will be different, when BSS is full.
Example http://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/1993

Dark_angel

Banned

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

These are all valid facts so we can't argue with that.

6 GB is just fine for me but I have faith in VISP that they can pull out an adequate service for all types of internet users.

Keep it up guys.

Dark_angel

Banned

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

nuclearcat, can you please remove the limitation I need to upload my times to http://www.xpandrally.com/xrx for the competition. From now one I know that a specific limit is set to my account wich is 6 GB.

mir

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

one thing i wanna add

well.. you guys at VISP.. I don't envy you
god be with you..help u find the inspiration.. the patience..the power.. to carry on
you practice yoga or something.. what kind ?

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

I can remove limit for customer only once.

Dark_angel

Banned

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

When my limit will be off then? and I am paying 40$ for the connection what type of bandwith should I have?

Last edited by Dark_angel (February 9 2007)

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

Up to 128K down and up to 32K up

You limit will be reset if i am not wrong at 12Feb

Dark_angel

Banned

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

^^^
I meant download limit per month? you have mentioned that I can get the 10 GB package for how much?

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

If you talk about quota - 1 GB account around $33 - $40 (depends on reseller prices).
I guess 10GB will be around $100-$150, only sales can say for sure, i dont know their formula, to calculate prices.

If unlimited, i am going to remove montly limit, it will be complete "fair usage" system soon, it will let u download a lot for example at night.

Dark_angel

Banned

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

^^^

OMG! the internet is nowdays per kilo?

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

It is new for you?
I was paying for GPRS 1$ for 1M in EU.

In lebanon seems one of the worst situation on the planet with internet. I wish government will let other ISP's than Ogero to have international backbone, and politics will shutup their mouth (cause no investments in IT sector will come, it is too risky now). If this happen i guess in 6 month it will be possible to do 512/128 for $40 without limits :-)

teodorgeorgiev

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

Well, Denis, of course.

Who will put one losy dollar in a country, where everyone can cause a war / civil disorder, just because he had a
constipation at the morning.

I was discussing this issue just before my coming with a friend from MATAV (the Hungarian telecom with a lot of investments from Austria). They are building a very strong backbone all around Eastern Europe till Instanbul (Turkey) and plan to go even more south. Me (with my stupidity) was trying to persuade him to speak with
the government of Lebanon to place a Gigabit optical link there by claiming that Lebanon is hungry for Internet and describign all the situation with satellite dishes, lack of capacity and etc. The guy humiliated me to the
possible maximum by opening the "Country profiles" page of bbc.co.uk and clicking on Lebanon.
Guess what is written there - constant politic fights, Syrian backed president fighting western oriented PM,
a government inside the government, frequent civil disorders, WARS, political swashbucklers, complete corruption.

"So, Teo, is this the place where you want my company to invest its money? If you were me, you would do it?
Cause I am sure you will not. I am considering this as an attempt of yours to screw me, to be honest. Listen to my advice - the only safe country in the area is Jordan. This is where we can negotiate and be sure that our funds won't sink".

Joseph, you know my opinion. Nothing new to tell, unless to remind you that you are spitting on the wrong
side. Since you are so brave, call Ogero and ask them "WHY?". And you know very well the words besides this
"why".

Mir, yoga - no. But playing piano works for me.

Dark_angel

Banned

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

You limit will be reset if i am not wrong at 12Feb

Already 12Feb 7:35 am, the connection is still limited :(

Dark_angel

Banned

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

Btw, can you setup a page where each user can check his download status ? it would be very usefull for heavy users.

Dark_angel

Banned

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

Ok, back to normal now. speed is 128 Kb/s.

Padre

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

man if u download a lot and can pay, get a sat downlink. a lot supply 1Mbit for around 32 euro. it's unlimited but following the FU rule. but a true one. means u will be reduced during only congestion time. not always.

hj88

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

padre

can you please list some good sat downlink providers. and is it possible to combine the speed of the sat and my regular internet download speed  simultaniously?

teodorgeorgiev

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

Padre, no offense, but HAVE YOU EVER GOT AN IDEA HOW SATELLITE WORKS and HOW THE SATELLITE INTERNET PROVIDERS work ??????????????????????

Sorry, but you DO NOT. AT ALL

Let me tell you. Lets suppose, a small satellite ISP starts with 5MHz on a transponder (on QSPK, this is apprx 4.5Mbit speed). 1MHz costs the provider at least $1500 (if you can find me cheaper, I will buy from you). Unlimited 1Mbit is to be sold for $50 per month, an amazing price.

So, the ISP starts an advertising campaign. There are no shapers. The first 50 people that come will experience AMAAAAAAAAAZING SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEDS.

There won't be almost any noticeable "peak time" as the users are only 50. These 50 will brag to their friends and more and more people start to come. In order for the
sat ISP to make profit, it needs 50-60 people per 1Mbit. Meanwhile the advertising "machine" keeps working on "full steam" fishing more and more people.

These people will wait 2-3 months until they understand that things are going worse and it is not a temporary situation, but a permanent one. Until these 2-3 months
the ISP will make a good profit.

This is how EuropeOnline used to work... Planetsky, BizzarNet and all other...

THAT IS.

www.isp-planet.com

Go to the ISP satellites list, read the archives, see how many bucks costs a MHz on a sat transponder and then talk.

Now some of you will tell me that I am nagging and shouting at all of you. But HEYYYYYYY, have someone of you seen me to give advices on the web design / programming forum ??????????????

Padre

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

heh. to be honest, no i dont really know all those technical stuff about Satellites. i admit it
all im saying is what i read. u get guaranteed 80% of ur connection speed minimum, untill u go beyond the other users, u will be placed on a reduced bandwidth to allow at least 80% of the users to have their bandwidth supplied.
im not talking bullshit, it's the offers i got from downlinks providers :S
As a matter of fact, if i get a 1Mbps and it's reduced to 25% it's still an unlimited 256 kbps, so still good !

Now: Are you receiving My PM's or not ?

Last edited by Padre (February 13 2007)

rolf

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

yeah satellite are usually not a viable solution, but have you seen satellite prices in the US? It's like it's another world...

padre

can you please list some good sat downlink providers. and is it possible to combine the speed of the sat and my regular internet download speed  simultaniously?

The short answer is: no.
But technically, you can distribute your connections over the 2 links, but it's not an easy thing to do and doesnt work perfectly, so you wont have exactly the bandwidth of your 2 combined connections, that is if you succeed in setting up the whole thing. There is no easy way to set it up that I know.

duckster

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

Padre i sent you a pm yest

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Unlimited is not unlimited after all!

Padre - in short words - satellite capacity more expensive even than broadband in lebanon. They or have more strict fair usage or they are just beginners. Me&TG spent a lot of time in this area, more than that we was working in satellite business for some time, and exactly for end-users. I am still tracking this thing, so i can tell, almost nothing is changed in pricing.
So if someone want, he can test on some real user this connection, but it must be not "reseller" demo, which will show u sweet, then sell shit. Otherwise you will invest your money in equipment and then throw away after few month of headache.