LebGeeks

Tech Guru

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

The Black Side of Further Theft in Lebanon's Economical Collapse:

You know why some supermatkerts are out of stock and shelves are empty ?  They are removing products and saving them in their warehouses. When the rate increases and the currency devalute more ,  the shelves will be magically restored. Coop  at Gbeireh is closed  due to this theft manoeuvres . The LBP has no value from the theft and greed mentality of many traders.

You know why 10 exchangers hold in custody and being questioned ?  They are saying we do not have USD.  They take only USD not LBP. They take USD at 3200 and store the USD ,  same supermarkets logic. Some spotted they have 200k USD ,  ironically when you ask do you have USD they say no.

You know you can still ship from Ali Express and Shop&Ship using the 1500 rate , customs are paid on 1500 bases too.

Last edited by Tech Guru (May 6 2020)

vengeance666

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

The Black Side of Further Theft in Lebanon's Economical Collapse:

You know why some supermatkerts are out of stock and shelves are empty ?  They are removing products and saving them in their warehouses. When the rate increases and the currency devalute more ,  the shelves will be magically restored. Coop  at Gbeireh is closed  due to this theft manoeuvres . The LBP has no value from the theft and greed mentality of many traders.

You know why 10 exchangers hold in custody and being questioned ?  They are saying we do not have USD.  They take only USD not LBP. They take USD at 3200 and store the USD ,  same supermarkets logic. Some spotted they have 200k USD ,  ironically when you ask do you have USD they say no.

You know you can still ship from Ali Express and Shop&Ship using the 1500 rate , customs are paid on 1500 bases too.

AlMakhazen were caught having different pricing on the shelves than pricing on their PoS systems. I think this issue is intentional (they claim it's something technical) and it's widespread in most supermarkets too. So everyone pay attention to the prices on the bill they give you when you checkout.

Tech Guru

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Near Malaab Al Baladi , beside Hawari Juice,  there are two exchangers who buy usd at black market rate. Yesterday , I know someone who sold them 500 USD at 4100 not 3200 rate as per recent BDL Circular. Weired enough ,  no one is approcahing them at all  during the whole economic collapse.

Last edited by Tech Guru (May 7 2020)

sero

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Near Malaab Al Baladi , beside Hawari Juice,  there are two exchangers who buy usd at black market rate. Yesterday , I know someone who sold them 500 USD at 4100 not 3200 rate as per recent BDL Circular. Weired enough ,  no one is approcahing them at all  during the whole economic collapse.

The sarraf's that should be stopped are the ones buying at 3200 and selling at 4100
The ones buying at 4100 and selling at 4150 are not abusing the system and shouldn't be stopped.

arached

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Near Malaab Al Baladi , beside Hawari Juice,  there are two exchangers who buy usd at black market rate. Yesterday , I know someone who sold them 500 USD at 4100 not 3200 rate as per recent BDL Circular. Weired enough ,  no one is approcahing them at all  during the whole economic collapse.

The sarraf's that should be stopped are the ones buying at 3200 and selling at 4100
The ones buying at 4100 and selling at 4150 are not abusing the system and shouldn't be stopped.

The one that are buying at 4100 are also abusing the system because no one now wants to sell at 3200 when there's a higher rate which also causing the traders to deal at the 4100 rate. If all the exchangers obey the BDL rate and no one can sell higher than 3200 rate than all the traders and supermarkets and such must deal at this rate. The issue here is both buying and selling at 4100 rate both are abusing the system. And FYI, most of those who are buying at higher rates are not selling the USD even tho they have alot of cash in their, which makes the situation alot worse.

sero

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Near Malaab Al Baladi , beside Hawari Juice,  there are two exchangers who buy usd at black market rate. Yesterday , I know someone who sold them 500 USD at 4100 not 3200 rate as per recent BDL Circular. Weired enough ,  no one is approcahing them at all  during the whole economic collapse.

The sarraf's that should be stopped are the ones buying at 3200 and selling at 4100
The ones buying at 4100 and selling at 4150 are not abusing the system and shouldn't be stopped.

The one that are buying at 4100 are also abusing the system because no one now wants to sell at 3200 when there's a higher rate which also causing the traders to deal at the 4100 rate. If all the exchangers obey the BDL rate and no one can sell higher than 3200 rate than all the traders and supermarkets and such must deal at this rate. The issue here is both buying and selling at 4100 rate both are abusing the system. And FYI, most of those who are buying at higher rates are not selling the USD even tho they have alot of cash in their, which makes the situation alot worse.

If the real price of LBP is 3200 then you're right, the sarraf buying at 4100 is at fault
But according to most financial analysts the real price of LBP is currently around 5,000 and may go up to 20,000 in few months if no economic/political change takes place.
Forcing the price at 3200 for something that's worth more in real life is also an abuse and no one with USD will sell at this range except the ones who really need to - this will only drive the price to go upwards in a new parallel black market

Last edited by sero (May 7 2020)

arached

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

The sarraf's that should be stopped are the ones buying at 3200 and selling at 4100
The ones buying at 4100 and selling at 4150 are not abusing the system and shouldn't be stopped.

The one that are buying at 4100 are also abusing the system because no one now wants to sell at 3200 when there's a higher rate which also causing the traders to deal at the 4100 rate. If all the exchangers obey the BDL rate and no one can sell higher than 3200 rate than all the traders and supermarkets and such must deal at this rate. The issue here is both buying and selling at 4100 rate both are abusing the system. And FYI, most of those who are buying at higher rates are not selling the USD even tho they have alot of cash in their, which makes the situation alot worse.

If the real price of LBP is 3200 then you're right, the sarraf buying at 4100 is at fault
But according to most financial analysts the real price of LBP is currently around 5,000 and may go up to 20,000 in few months if no economic/political change takes place.
Forcing the price at 3200 for something that's worth more in real life is also an abuse and no one with USD will sell at this range except the ones who really need to - this will only drive the price to go upwards in a new parallel black market

That's the issue, no one knows what the real rate is, but hoarding the USD notes will definitely make it worse. From my perspective, it the government and the BDL fault to allow such behavior from the beginning. Exchangers should not be allowed to play with the rate at their will it's only making it worse. But again this lebanon and no doubt that the banks are coordinating with the exchangers.

But at least some good news, now all the black market rates application are blocked by the government. It's a small step but whatever can be done to stop spreading the black market will help.

Tech Guru

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Point here , if local traders are following the black market rate for stocking their products is catestrophical. Setting a rate that is exchangeable periodically is much better than a black market rate with a daily increase. The trick of black market exchangers is to buy at much higher rates vs BDL circulars , in order to abosrb the USD to them. Adhereing to 3200 will force supermarkets and traders , not  to match on daily bases, their prices to the black market rate. The 3200 will increase but not on daily bases , people will have some time to breath and not be on the mercy of black market rates.

Last edited by Tech Guru (May 7 2020)

Johnaudi

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

But at least some good news, now all the black market rates application are blocked by the government. It's a small step but whatever can be done to stop spreading the black market will help.

How is that good news? Some exchanges used to base pricing off these apps, now that they're gone they can simply price higher than the usually asked for as there are no visible grounds to what the actual price is, and the fact they're in "necessity" since most exchange offices aren't operating. (Or you need to know someone)

Note: they price from these apps as a regulation, not their actual price. In case they don't underprice the market.

Last edited by Johnaudi (May 7 2020)

arached

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

But at least some good news, now all the black market rates application are blocked by the government. It's a small step but whatever can be done to stop spreading the black market will help.

How is that good news? Some exchanges used to base pricing off these apps, now that they're gone they can simply price higher than the usually asked for as there are no visible grounds to what the actual price is, and the fact they're in "necessity" since most exchange offices aren't operating. (Or you need to know someone)

because those rates are mostly based on the black market rates which causing the people to think this is the rate that's given by any exchanger. So when the people go to an authorized exchanger and get the 3200 rate, they are refusing because these application says it's higher even so it's the black market rate. And for those that knows its only the black market rate, when the see the difference they wont go to an authorized exchanger. Limit the resource of black market information to the people and they'll have to go to the authorized ones.

Some exchanges used to base pricing off these apps, now that they're gone they can simply price higher than the usually asked for as there are no visible grounds to what the actual price is, and the fact they're in "necessity" since most exchange offices aren't operating. (Or you need to know someone)

That the whole point there, they should obey the BDL rate and not the black market rate. The issue here is that no one is controlling the exchange rate and they all go with the flow and play with the rate as they like for their benefits causing more damage. This should be stopped and controlled by the BDL setting an official exchange rate for all the exchangers to work with

arached

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Point here , if local traders are following the black market rate for stocking their products is catestrophical. Setting a rate that is exchangeable periodically is much better than a black market rate with a daily increase. The trick of black market exchangers is to buy at much higher rates vs BDL circulars , in order to abosrb the USD to them. Adhereing to 3200 will force supermarkets and traders to match on daily bases their prices to the black market rate. The 3200 will increase but not on daily bases , people will have some time to breath and not be on the mercy of black market rates.

That's the point, the local traders and supermakets are only following the black market rate making it as an excuse to higher their price. why should the black market exchangers control the market at their will and direct effects all the Lebanese people? The products are getting pricier 1000 or 2000 at least in a single day because of this manipulations

Johnaudi

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

because those rates are mostly based on the black market rates which causing the people to think this is the rate that's given by any exchanger. So when the people go to an authorized exchanger and get the 3200 rate, they are refusing because these application says it's higher even so it's the black market rate. And for those that knows its only the black market rate, when the see the difference they wont go to an authorized exchanger. Limit the resource of black market information to the people and they'll have to go to the authorized ones.
That the whole point there, they should obey the BDL rate and not the black market rate. The issue here is that no one is controlling the exchange rate and they all go with the flow and play with the rate as they like for their benefits causing more damage. This should be stopped and controlled by the BDL setting an official exchange rate for all the exchangers to work with

But that's not how basic economics work, you've cut off the source of USD to the country (blocking USD money transfers via MoneyGram/WU, airports closed, etc.), you expect a soaring demand in USD, many people will be willing to exchange their LBP for USD out of necessity (put aside as a safe haven).

Let us assume all exchanges operate by following the 3200LBP per dollar law, they will eventually run out of USD, leading to an increase in demands to BDL, forcing BDL to price USD to an even higher rate. BDL wins, the people win, exchange houses lose.
The exchanges  aren't following the application prices, the people are. The exchanges set their own price (based on supply/demand), the applications reflect their price, the people know what price to expect. (Hence making exchanges that overprice it know they are.). Exchanges only look at these apps to know whether they underpriced the market and regulate.

It seems more or less fishy to me: you can't tell the world how much our lira actually costs, we told you it's 1515 but you can't buy usd with it, if you want usd it's 3200 but good luck finding an exchange which will sell you, most exchanges won't sell you for less than X amount, but oh wait, you'll never know what X is since we blocked the freedom of speech on LBP pricing against the USD.

Last edited by Johnaudi (May 7 2020)

arached

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

But that's not how basic economics work, you've cut off the source of USD to the country (blocking USD money transfers via MoneyGram/WU, airports closed, etc.), you expect a soaring demand in USD, many people will be willing to exchange their LBP for USD out of necessity (put aside as a safe haven).

Let us assume all exchanges operate by following the 3200LBP per dollar law, they will eventually run out of USD, leading to an increase in demands to BDL, forcing BDL to price USD to an even higher rate. BDL wins, the people win, exchange houses lose.
The exchanges  aren't following the application prices, the people are. The exchanges set their own price (based on supply/demand), the applications reflect their price, the people know what price to expect. (Hence making exchanges that overprice it know they are.). Exchanges only look at these apps to know whether they underpriced the market and regulate.

It seems more or less fishy to me: you can't tell the world how much our lira actually costs, we told you it's 1515 but you can't buy usd with it, if you want usd it's 3200 but good luck finding an exchange which will sell you, most exchanges won't sell you for less than X amount, but oh wait, you'll never know what X is since we blocked the freedom of speech on LBP pricing against the USD.

The issue is that we can't tell who's dirtier, the exchangers or the BDL. But for me limiting the resource to an official party is better than putting it at the disposal of black marketers who just want to take advantage of the situation. It's true no one knows the real rate of the LBP but why should we let black market exchangers to control the whole market? People are still getting paid at the 1500 rate (if they didn't get a pay decrease) while all the market is following those black marketers and their rate which getting higher violently without any control. And those applications was a source for everyone to get with the black market rates which making it worse. And while the BDL is underpricing the rate, those black market are over pricing to benefit more. So cut the source and let the market obey the official exchange rate which is 3200, at least with the official source it's more stable. Let the BDL wins, the people win, exchange houses lose and not the other way around.
BDL is responsible here for not taking the needed actions to control the market at the right rate.

vengeance666

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

I saw a video from the minister of economy that they are working on a list to supply 85% of the amount in USD to importers of essential goods. What are the basic goods? That's the list they are preparing. In my guess it would be meat, wheat, milk, grains etc This move will gradually decrease the demand of US on the black market and would set the pricing of said goods in supermarkets on a rough 2100-2200 exchange rate.

And lastly, for the love of all gods, saints and prophets known to humanity stop defending exchange houses and throwing supply and demand arguments because this does not apply here at all. Supply and demand is calculated in a scientific way based on accurate uniform data and produces a single exchange rate that is applicable all over the country and anywhere you go. Supply and demand is not determined in whatsapp groups, it's not determined in expresso shops on the side of a main road in Chtaura and of course not in facebook comments on a page that god only knows the owner of it. Here you can have as much as 150 lira difference between 2 exchange shops being 2 meters apart from each other. It's a clear manipulation when an exchanger simply tells you I cannot sell at 4000 lira because I already bought at 4100 and that would put me on a loss. Also these apps are not for reference, the apps are for spewing out fake pricings by black marketers to make clueless people panic and rush to buy/sell USD hence creating big profit margins for the exchangers based on their current situation (if they need to buy or sell USD) and it has been proven to be happening if you actually follow closely how prices change in a very systematic/organized way every couple of hours.

Last edited by vengeance666 (May 7 2020)

Tech Guru

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Financial Attorney General Judge Ali Ibrahim gave a signal to the investigation department to arrest the money exchangers syndicate president ,  Mahmoud Murad,  on charges of manipulating the exchange rate of the dollar.

Murad was elected on October 5, 2018 as president of the Syndicate of  money exchangers in Lebanon, who is from the Nabatiyeh District and is affiliated with the politicians. Mahmoud Murad owns an office and a center for selling foreign currencies against the Lebanese pound in Ghobeiry in the southern suburbs in the name of Muradco Exchange and under license number 316.

Hopefully this move will be fruitful to stablize the black market chaotic increase, and Murad capture is not being used as scapegoat.

Last edited by Tech Guru (May 8 2020)

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Financial Attorney General Judge Ali Ibrahim gave a signal to the investigation department to arrest the money exchangers syndicate president ,  Mahmoud Murad,  on charges of manipulating the exchange rate of the dollar.

Awesome news. This shines a light of hope for Lebanon.
Now if we could just jail every other corrupt figure.

jsaade

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

In Lebanon the Attorney, the judge and the jury are corrupt. They just try to find the scapegoat.

Tech Guru

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

I advice you to check out your balances at April 3rd , the salaries payroll ones. BDL Circular 148 is applicable on LBP salaries , without account closure, for one time only. Assume you have in your balance on the 3rd of April a remaining debt salary balance of 800,000 LBP , the bank will pay you:

(800,000 / 1500) × 3200 = 1,700,000 LBP.

It's  a BDL incentive and covered , not a commercial banks generosity. The 148 Circular was signed on 3rd  of April 2020.

Remaining Balance at this date must be free of any debt and has a value date for example at 4th of April. Just check your balances through your bank mobile application by displaying a statement of account.

Last edited by Tech Guru (May 14 2020)

AVOlio

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

I advice you to check out your balances at April 3rd , the salaries payroll ones. BDL Circular 148 is applicable on LBP salaries , without account closure, for one time only. Assume you have in your balance on the 3rd of April a remaining debt salary balance of 800,000 LBP , the bank will pay you:

(800,000 / 1500) × 3200 = 1,700,000 LBP.

It's  a BDL incentive and covered , not a commercial banks generosity. The 148 Circular was signed on 3rd  of April 2020.

Remaining Balance at this date must be free of any debt and has a value date for example at 4th of April. Just check your balances through your bank mobile application by displaying a statement of account.

Do you have a link or image of that circular we can see?
I want to check if on the circular it's 3,000 or 3,200

TheIlluminative

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

It's not  3200, but 3000. The banks don't give 3200 at all.

Tech Guru

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

I advice you to check out your balances at April 3rd , the salaries payroll ones. BDL Circular 148 is applicable on LBP salaries , without account closure, for one time only. Assume you have in your balance on the 3rd of April a remaining debt salary balance of 800,000 LBP , the bank will pay you:

(800,000 / 1500) × 3200 = 1,700,000 LBP.

It's  a BDL incentive and covered , not a commercial banks generosity. The 148 Circular was signed on 3rd  of April 2020.

Remaining Balance at this date must be free of any debt and has a value date for example at 4th of April. Just check your balances through your bank mobile application by displaying a statement of account.

Do you have a link or image of that circular we can see?
I want to check if on the circular it's 3,000 or 3,200

The rate is not fixed

AVOlio

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

وفقاً لسعر السوق بتاريخ طلب السحب من قبل العميل
That's what it says.
My bank told me it's 3,000

But didn't bdl make another circular stating that the exchange rate should be 3,000?

Tech Guru

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Don't Sell Any USD:

After the marked decrease in the dollar exchange rate, so that it reached  3700 LBP / 1$ . The Lebanese are asking whether they should sell the remaining dollars with them, for fear of further declines and in the hope of profit. The low exchange rate scenario is not the first of its kind during this crisis. It happened previously when the exchange rate was 2000 LBP , and then it suddenly fell to the 1700 LBP , when people sold what they had in fear of returning to the 1500  LBP.  However,  the dollar then settled for a long time at the price of 1850 LBP . "The exchange rate game and this rapid decline are always used by money changers to encourage people to sell their dollars. Ironically, exchangers donot sell USD in case some asked them since their primary manoeuvre is to store USD.

Last edited by Tech Guru (May 18 2020)

wollyka

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Don't Sell Any USD:

After the marked decrease in the dollar exchange rate, so that it reached  3700 LBP / 1$ . The Lebanese are asking whether they should sell the remaining dollars with them, for fear of further declines and in the hope of profit. The low exchange rate scenario is not the first of its kind during this crisis. It happened previously when the exchange rate was 2000 LBP , and then it suddenly fell to the 1700 LBP , when people sold what they had in fear of returning to the 1500  LBP.  However,  the dollar then settled for a long time at the price of 1850 LBP . "The exchange rate game and this rapid decline are always used by money changers to encourage people to sell their dollars. Ironically, exchangers donot sell USD in case some asked them since their primary manoeuvre is to store USD.

Very true!

NuclearVision

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Today I received a circulating excel sheet it shows that in just 2 weeks there has been an increase in circulating LBP value from 15.x billion to 16.8 billion. That's ridiculously high for 2 weeks.