LebGeeks

enthralled

Member

Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

Hi,
I need your opinion for a gaming rig:

Board: Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD4 (DDR3)
CPU: 3.5 GHz - i7-3770K 8M/LGA1155 + ThermalTake CLP0596 Frio Advanced for LGA2011, 1366, 1155, 1156 & 775 CPU Cooler
GPU: Gigabyte GV-N670OC-2GD 1.0 GeForce GTX 670 2GB DDR5
RAM: Kingston HyperX Genesis 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model KHX16C10P1K2/16
HDD: Kingston HyperX 3K SH103S3/240G 2.5" 240GB SATA III MLC Internal SSD
(I don't need much space, except for games and OS, I have externals for moves/music)
ODD: LG BH10LS38-BR DVDRW Blu-ray SATA
Network: Linksys WMP600N Wireless-N WIFI PCI Adapter
Case: Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Mid Tower ATX w/ Window
PSU: XFX P1-850S-NLB9 850W PSU
Keyboard: Gigabyte K8100 Aivia Gaming Keyboard
Monitor: 40" Sony HX750 (will do 3D gaming)
UPS: PCE 2000 VA UPS XP Series 1200W  (2x Batteries) (for desktop + 40" Sony HX750 + Edifier 2.1 s730 speakers (300W))

Thanks

Edit: Budget 2~2.5k. If it's worth it, I can ship small (non-heavy) parts through borderlinx/DHL.

Edit2: I have Edifier 2.1 s730 speakers (RMS 75W x 2 + 150W x 1)
Should I get a soundcard, or onboard is enough?

Edit3:
-Changed cpu cooler: ThermalTake CLP0596 Frio Advanced for LGA2011, 1366, 1155, 1156 & 775 CPU Cooler
-Removed mouse (will use my existing, for now)
-Keyboard: Gigabyte K8100 Aivia Gaming Keyboard
-UPS: PCE 2000 VA UPS XP Series 1200W  (2x Batteries) (for desktop + 40" Sony HX750 + Edifier 2.1 s730 speakers (300W))
-Case: Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Mid Tower ATX w/ Window
-PSU: XFX P1-850S-NLB9 850W PSU

I also need recommendations for a soundcard.

Edit4:
Shopping list:
3.5 GHz - i7-3770K 8M/LGA1155
ThermalTake CLP0596 Frio Advanced for LGA2011, 1366, 1155, 1156 & 775 CPU Cooler
Kingston HyperX Red 8GB 1600MHz 240-Pin DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model KHX16C10B1R/8
Kingston HyperX 3K SH103S3/240G 2.5" 240GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
LG BH10LS38-BR DVDRW Blu-ray SATA
XFX P1-850S-NLB9 850W PSU
Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Mid Tower ATX w/ Window
PCE 2000 VA UPS XP Series 1200W  (2x Batteries)
Creative Sound Blaster Z SBX PCIE Gaming Sound Card with Beamforming Microphone SB1500
EVGA GeForce GTX670 FTW+ 4096MB GDDR5 256bit DVI HDMI DisplayPort 4-Way SLI Ready Graphics Card 04G-P4-3673-KR
AS Rock LGA1155 DDR3 SATA3 USB3.0 Quad CrossFireX and Quad SLI A GbE ATX Motherboard Z77 EXTREME4
Keyboard (undecided)

Edit5:
All ordered parts + price:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … sp=sharing

Last edited by enthralled (July 20 2013)

yasamoka

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

What's your budget? Can you ship items from US?

enthralled

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

What's your budget? Can you ship items from US?

2~2.5k. If it's worth it, I can ship small (non-heavy) parts through borderlinx/DHL.

enthralled

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

Oh, and this is relevant; I have Edifier 2.1 s730 speakers (RMS 75W x 2 + 150W x 1)
http://www.amazon.com/Edifier-USA-S730- … B004EOOAXQ
Should I get a soundcard, or onboard is enough?

edhunter

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

I got an XFX PSU from compuworld for 126 $ its 750 watt semi modular. Would  definitely recommend

AVOlio

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

For Keyboard, i definetly recommend you the Gigabyte Aiviva Osmium mechanical gaming keyboard from pcandparts.
For mouse, you can check this thread for more suggestions.

For UPS,any PCE ups from pcandparts will do, i advise you get 2000VA or 2200VA for longer UPS power time... just in case

Note that your chosen GPU is out of stock @pcandparts

Last edited by AVOlio (April 11 2013)

yasamoka

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

I recommend a 7970 shipped from Amazon through Borderlinx, for a GPU.

16GB of RAM are overkill for gaming, I'd leave those till the end after budget is calculated.

Note that with 2-2.5k you could go for 670/680 SLi or 7950/7970 CrossFire.

Concerning CrossFire, this topic should give you some indication of what you're facing, at least until July when AMD have promised to provide a driver that allows an option to reduce (eliminate?) microstutter (at the expense of latency, as Nvidia have done as well).

If you're shipping, you might as well ship a better SSD, although I've heard the HyperX SSD is very good (you might want to compare prices, performance, features, capacities).

Don't go for a Thermaltake Jing. Go for the Frio. Normal Frio, FrioOCK, or Frio Extreme should give that 3770K some good cooling.

As for the soundcard, it's a MUST if you have a good audio setup (which you seem to have bought recently).

That's mostly what I can think of for now.

Last edited by yasamoka (April 11 2013)

enthralled

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

Note that your chosen GPU is out of stock @pcandparts

Pcandparts said they're restocking the gigabyte 670 in about 1 week.

I got an XFX PSU from compuworld for 126 $ its 750 watt semi modular. Would  definitely recommend

750w psu should (hopefully) be more than enough, right?

I recommend a 7970 shipped from Amazon through Borderlinx, for a GPU.

Isn't nvidia more mature in stereoscopic gaming? I also enjoy having extra eyecandy through physX supported games.

As for the soundcard, it's a MUST if you have a good audio setup (which you seem to have bought recently).

Which one do you recommend? Is the new soundblaster Z any good? Also I can't seem to find any brand-name soundcards around... anywhere to buy one? Or ship from US?

Thanks guys! You're all great.

alk

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

personal opinion,
go for 3770 cpu no need for the more expensive 3770k they are almost same, and also for gaming you will not notice the difference, since the GPU will take care of everything, from physX to graphics ...
and no need for the ssd, your rig has 1600MHz maximum RAM speed so why need the very fast ssd knowing that most probably your rams will not be able to keep up (it would show in the windows index but will not show in gaming and loading you are limited by other factors)
for the GPU I was checking and 660TI is like $100 less and almost same (bandwidth is 64bit less but same GFLOPS same number od SM and ALUs a littel less power hungry cause of the bandwidth change) besides you need the high capacity since will be playing HD 3D so the gegabytes matter (670 3GB while 660 4GB), and no need for SLI unless you change the whole MB and get 2000MHz+ RAMs only then consider SLI ...

edhunter

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

XFX 750 Watt is enough for a single GPU i would say. If you are thinking more than that, I think you might be reaching the upper limits.

yasamoka

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

personal opinion,
go for 3770 cpu no need for the more expensive 3770k they are almost same, and also for gaming you will not notice the difference, since the GPU will take care of everything, from physX to graphics ...
and no need for the ssd, your rig has 1600MHz maximum RAM speed so why need the very fast ssd knowing that most probably your rams will not be able to keep up (it would show in the windows index but will not show in gaming and loading you are limited by other factors)
for the GPU I was checking and 660TI is like $100 less and almost same (bandwidth is 64bit less but same GFLOPS same number od SM and ALUs a littel less power hungry cause of the bandwidth change) besides you need the high capacity since will be playing HD 3D so the gegabytes matter (670 3GB while 660 4GB), and no need for SLI unless you change the whole MB and get 2000MHz+ RAMs only then consider SLI ...

1) 3770 and 3770K are NOT the same. The K version comes with an unlocked multiplier, which allows for overclocking. The non-K version cannot overclock much (3%?) since the LGA1155 platforms' base clock is set at 100MHz and is tied to many other busses that would suffer if not running at 100-103MHz base clock (like PCI-Express). So, in this case, overclocking CPU is left to the CPU multiplier. Hence the K version.

2) CPU bottlenecks are mostly non-existent in games @ the stock frequencies Intel CPUs are shipping with, but you can notice the difference in several areas. One is running multi-GPU in some cases, and in others, games like StarCraft II which generally use two cores heavily (the new HotS expansion pack might have reduced this issue to an extent) benefit immensely from overclocking since they are impacted by per-core performance and not by general CPU performance (determined by the 4 cores themselves).

3) RAM is much much much faster than SSDs. Each stick of RAM runs off a 64-bit bus, double data rate (DDR), which means 128 bits, or 16 Bytes are transferred per clock cycle. Assuming RAM is 1600MHz, the norm nowadays, you get 25.6GB/s per channel of 1600MHz DDR3 memory. Now, the CPU memory controller certainly would not give you 2 x 25.6GB/s - 51.2GB/s of bandwidth considering it is dual channel. RAM latency is in the nanoseconds.

In comparison, regular consumer SSDs hit 550MB/s reads mostly and have access times in the microseconds. Even top-end PCI-E based SSDs hit around 1.6GB/s (check out the OCZ RevoDrive and similar).

4) Do NOT skimp on GTX670 and go GTX660Ti. The 256-bit memory bus is already tight enough as it is for the GTX670. The 192-bit memory bus on the 660Ti really shows its weakness. The card barely makes it worth it at the $300 price tag, compared to the HD7950 which pretty much swamps it across the deck, but also there is a potential memory issue that might rear its ugly head in the future (however, as of now it has no perceivable effect).

5) 3D does NOT increase VRAM consumption. 3D means that instead of 1 frame being rendered for a given scene, two frames, one per eye, are rendered, using the same VRAM content. The frames are alternated and the active shutter glasses are shut alternatively, respectively.

3D is very intensive and I wouldn't even consider running 3D on any single card but a Titan...even then, there can be problems. A 100% hit to performance is almost CERTAIN. 60FPS 2D = 30FPS 3D, that's for sure.

6) SLi and CrossFire are generally not impacted by memory speeds, such applies for almost all gaming loads. RAM speeds matter mostly in rendering, not in gaming.

7) Generally any motherboard that has full x16 physical PCI-E slots and supports PCI-E 3.0 x8.x8 can be easily used for SLi or CrossFire. No need to go for a high-end / enthusiast motherboard with multi-GPU.

AvoK95

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

personal opinion,
go for 3770 cpu no need for the more expensive 3770k they are almost same, and also for gaming you will not notice the difference, since the GPU will take care of everything, from physX to graphics ...
and no need for the ssd, your rig has 1600MHz maximum RAM speed so why need the very fast ssd knowing that most probably your rams will not be able to keep up (it would show in the windows index but will not show in gaming and loading you are limited by other factors)
for the GPU I was checking and 660TI is like $100 less and almost same (bandwidth is 64bit less but same GFLOPS same number od SM and ALUs a littel less power hungry cause of the bandwidth change) besides you need the high capacity since will be playing HD 3D so the gegabytes matter (670 3GB while 660 4GB), and no need for SLI unless you change the whole MB and get 2000MHz+ RAMs only then consider SLI ...

Shut up  (No offence) The stuff you're talking about is 100% wrong. ALL of them.

enthralled

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

1) 3770 and 3770K are NOT the same. The K version comes with an unlocked multiplier, which allows for overclocking. The non-K version cannot overclock much (3%?) since the LGA1155 platforms' base clock is set at 100MHz and is tied to many other busses that would suffer if not running at 100-103MHz base clock (like PCI-Express). So, in this case, overclocking CPU is left to the CPU multiplier. Hence the K version.

I have no experience with overclocking. is it generally recommended? If I'm not going to OC, should I get non-k?

Added Edit3 to main post:
-Changed cpu cooler: ThermalTake CLP0596 Frio Advanced for LGA2011, 1366, 1155, 1156 & 775 CPU Cooler
-Removed mouse (will use my existing, for now)
-Keyboard: Gigabyte K8100 Aivia Gaming Keyboard
-UPS: PCE 2000 VA UPS XP Series 1200W  (2x Batteries) (for desktop + 40" Sony HX750 + Edifier 2.1 s730 speakers (300W))
-Case: Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Mid Tower ATX w/ Window
-PSU: XFX P1-850S-NLB9 850W PSU
I also need recommendations for a soundcard.

Last edited by enthralled (April 12 2013)

yasamoka

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

The Frio Advanced is good, but the Frio Extreme is better.

If anything, go for a good mouse before you go for a good keyboard. Plus, you can't buy any mouse or keyboard blindly.

With mice, you have optical sensors and laser sensors, claw grip vs. palm grip, buttons, features, etc...
With keyboards, you have different switch types, different plastic types, gaming features, macro keys, LED backlights, LED colors, etc...

So don't go for the Aivia until you are sure Cherry MX Red switches are good for you (they are said to be inaccurate for typing, obviously among non-touch typists. Touch typists love them.)

The case is awesome. Where would you get the XFX 850W from?

Soundcard, I'm deciding for a friend between the Xonar DX and the Creative Sound Blaster Z, leaning more towards the Creative card, I'll tell you why later.

alk

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

Ur claims are technically correct, but as you noticed he doesn't even over clock ( already overclocking is bad enough) ... also what is ur experience with real equipment cause as it seems what u said is just a geeks translation of specs (not that it is bad but just this is theory and not applied to real world)
I wasn't talking technical cause anyone can go read what u said online .. how about if I ask u what is the most time consuming state in a CPU? And how does RAM actually work? how does it grab what it needs? Why is there scheduler why mutli core rather than high speed (for instance ALUs) and if we take ur words if ddr3 128 bits is fast enough how is ddr5 256 bit barely good knowing that in the end the textures, for instance, are not read hdd --> GPU rather hdd--> RAM --> GPU.
Don't be fooled by the numbers performance is not numbers give u example iPhone vs android (u will say os I would say RAM too)
I don't care if u consider me an idiot but when u build a computer u don't Judy read the numbers (common mistake)

yasamoka

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

Ur claims are technically correct, but as you noticed he doesn't even over clock ( already overclocking is bad enough) ... also what is ur experience with real equipment cause as it seems what u said is just a geeks translation of specs (not that it is bad but just this is theory and not applied to real world)
I wasn't talking technical cause anyone can go read what u said online .. how about if I ask u what is the most time consuming state in a CPU? And how does RAM actually work? how does it grab what it needs? Why is there scheduler why mutli core rather than high speed (for instance ALUs) and if we take ur words if ddr3 128 bits is fast enough how is ddr5 256 bit barely good knowing that in the end the textures, for instance, are not read hdd --> GPU rather hdd--> RAM --> GPU.
Don't be fooled by the numbers performance is not numbers give u example iPhone vs android (u will say os I would say RAM too)
I don't care if u consider me an idiot but when u build a computer u don't Judy read the numbers (common mistake)

You're throwing the burden of proof on me. Show me that every single bit you said is correct with benchmarks of games.

What is my experience with real equipment? OK:

1) Core i7 930 @3.61GHz no overvolt
2) DDR3-1600MHz triple channel RAM 6GB @ 1520 8-8-8-24
3) Dual CrossFire 7970s
4) Fully custom water loop with a 560mm quad radiator, 1x XSPC Raystorm CPU waterblock, 2x EK-VGA Supremacy GPU waterblocks, and an MCP655 pump

Up till now, handled 3 7950s other than my card, with differing ASICs, and ran benchmarks on CrossFire, also used an SSD on my *weak* DDR3-based system.

All the terms you threw out are exactly what you said, geeks translation of specs. You'd have me compare DDR3 to GDDR5 when it isn't even valid, and multi-core performance vs. single core performance and ALUs, etc... when it is all rubbish, because in the end, as you said, practical real world performance is what matters (just to illustrate, compare the AMD FX series vs. the Intel i5 and i7 CPUs across multiple games and see how variable things are).

GDDR5 256-bit bs DDR5 384-bit, I never said 256-bit is not good. But compared to the cards with the 384-bit busses, the 79xx cards and the GTX Titan, they fall flat on their faces when you go higher resolution. Benchmarks like Heaven and Valley benefit greatly from VRAM OCs on the GTX680 due to the 256-bit bus holding it back.

Plus you mentioned DDR3 RAM bottlenecking an SSD, then you tell me about GDDR5 and streaming textures. Then you compare the two. Say whaaat?

Nobody said you're an idiot. Argue facts with me, no personal attacks here.

Last edited by yasamoka (April 12 2013)

Khaled

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

Ur claims are technically correct, but as you noticed he doesn't even over clock ( already overclocking is bad enough) ... also what is ur experience with real equipment cause as it seems what u said is just a geeks translation of specs (not that it is bad but just this is theory and not applied to real world)
I wasn't talking technical cause anyone can go read what u said online .. how about if I ask u what is the most time consuming state in a CPU? And how does RAM actually work? how does it grab what it needs? Why is there scheduler why mutli core rather than high speed (for instance ALUs) and if we take ur words if ddr3 128 bits is fast enough how is ddr5 256 bit barely good knowing that in the end the textures, for instance, are not read hdd --> GPU rather hdd--> RAM --> GPU.
Don't be fooled by the numbers performance is not numbers give u example iPhone vs android (u will say os I would say RAM too)
I don't care if u consider me an idiot but when u build a computer u don't Judy read the numbers (common mistake)

Not to be rude or anything, what AvoK95 said, don't talk unless you know what you are talking about..

What Yasamokasaid is correct both technically and applied to real life practices, which, considering what you said, i doubt you have any in opposite to the experience both AvoK95 and me share. So calm down and read what Yasamoka said.

ps: it gets much more complex than hdd--> RAM --> GPU and being a computer engineer i know. so yea.. do a bit more reading regarding the actual role of RAM in gaming.

alk

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

Just like more horsepower doesn't mean a faster car, same goes for the pc, all am saying no need to get unlocked if locked can do the job I said almost same and my point proven (no offense to the one who asked but if he knew how to overclock and all that he wouldn't be asking the question here)
As for the limiting factor of a of speed I didn't say it is the ram or the hdd or the sdd (yes the basic principle is hdd ram gpu if u want in details we can open another thread)  and yes for experience I have been in this field since 1995 so been there done that from the khz cpu till now ... I didn't say rubbish I said performance wise the 3770k or 3770 will not differ and the 660ti and 670 have same gflops so get the bigger cause hd textures take more space .. if u want to see how space affects go see the 650 1gb mac vs the 2 gb one at hd graphics as for real life numbers check notebookcheck.com or the graphs in techreport.com
Anyway whatever enthralled chooses hope it would suit you price and performance but remember you don't need what you will not use good luck ...

yasamoka

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

Just...who talked about space?

One of the main determinants of my getting the 7970 3GB over the 680 2GB was space. So don't tell me about space.

Last edited by yasamoka (April 12 2013)

alk

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

Sorry using a tab sorry for dictation mistakes

d3ad

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

From where are you getting the Cooler Master Case?

yasamoka

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

From where are you getting the Cooler Master Case?

pcandparts has the case listed.

enthralled

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

I'll probably get the non-k 3770 as alk suggests. I don't like the idea of overclocking... plus price so far is already 2k without even adding the gpu and sound card. I'm trying to get good hardware that lasts a little. But no need to get too fancy with keyboard and mouse; I don't play fps, mostly rpg and action/adventure with a ps3 controller.

enthralled

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

Where would you get the XFX 850W from?

Also from Pcandparts.

yasamoka

Member

Re: Building a gaming rig, need suggestions

I'll probably get the non-k 3770 as alk suggests. I don't like the idea of overclocking... plus price so far is already 2k without even adding the gpu and sound card. I'm trying to get good hardware that lasts a little. But no need to get too fancy with keyboard and mouse; I don't play fps, mostly rpg and action/adventure with a ps3 controller.

How da hell is it 2k already without a GPU? That's just impossible! Give me some calculations please!

The difference between the k and the non-k is $40. Not much to worry about at this budget honestly. Even if you don't want to overclock now, just...get the K and be done with it. Safe overclocks are terribly easy and no overvolting is needed to reach good healthy overclocks.