LebGeeks

Ahmad Toutounji

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

with what isp are you?

NuclearVision

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

Any news about cable internet more specifically eaglenet ?

HotCreep

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

and they also told me that i can't change the speeds of the next month from now, i need to change them at the begining of the next month to be applied on the month after the next month :S

Same here, I think all ISPs are like that.

I am with Sodetel and last time I talked to them they told me that when the new plans are introduced we will pick which plan we want before the end of this month, probably when logging in to our sodetel accounts.

sailor

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

Me too, i went to central Jdeideh to change the plan to the 6-8mbps.
She said she put a notice on my line, to check if it can handle the speed, and told me to come back in 10 days.

10 days? I called cyberia and asked them and he replied in 10 seconds that my line can handle 8 mb

How much is your line attenuation?

amkahal

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

Guys take a look at this:

i think that Ericsson is finishing the DWDM project, and that will lead to a faster internet a stable connection.
that date of Decree is 2-june-2014.

What do you thing ?

silaci

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

That could explain the slow and erratic connection many have been experiencing lately.

HotCreep

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

That could explain the slow and erratic connection many have been experiencing lately.

How though?

amkahal

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

That could explain the slow and erratic connection many have been experiencing lately.

How though?

Switching from old to new maybe.

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

@johnaudi wishful thinking i'd say! I highly doubt that. Since when does a Lebanese ISP offer "nice things" to its customers? Has an ISP ever called a customer and said we apologize for our mediocre service and for that we will give you free internet for a month? of course not.. My connection with IDM goes down to barely 1 mbps (from 4) at night and I just have to live with it. Just so they can have more customers and load the system without buying more bandwidth.

Do you think many ISPs do that? I know in USA you might stay off the grid for a weeks, until Comcast (for example) fix your connection.
And business-grade (and true business, not some semi-SOHO) connection in USA is even more expensive than in Lebanon.

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

Unlikely. Doesn't Terranet have their own backbone that does not go through Ogero? I heard both Sodetel and Terranet have some license to not use Ogero's backbone.
IDM will just get cheaper bandwidth from Ogero and distribute it for cheaper prices. The net result will be the same.

NOTE! Rumours, i dont have exact info: IDM as i know suing Abdel-Moneim Youssef. Since it is Lebanon, my guess IDM will have troubles getting bandwidth. Few other ISPs also. Also if ADSL rules for switching ISP will be eased - all this game will end up in IDM and Terranet bankrupcy, cause they trusted government, and moved their customers to government controlled ADSL, instead of running their own DSP non-telephone-based networks.

Understandable. They are going to offer a package that others are not going to compete with (for whatever reason).
And above all, they are going to make it more accessible.

For now yes. As soon as they get semi-monopoly, no need to compete anymore, they will rape users, as they are raping ISPs now.
I will give you example, it is also some of ISPs secrets, how pricing planning is done in normal countries and what are common mistakes in Lebanon.
I best case they will sell for ISPs mbit with new prices (still i am not sure about them) around $100-$170/Mbit. End-user 2Mbit unlimited offer on Ogero is $50.
Some people will say "2Mbit users wont use as ISP", but in Lebanon it might be an opposite, while good ISP should not use 100% of his bandwidth, he need to use around 70% to keep quality, some users don't care, they share connection with neighbours, and their unlimited packages are flat 24/7 (this is why FUP common and heavily enfoced on unlimited connections in Lebanon). And what is worst, you can't just take one unlimited package "like in Europe and USA" and introduce it together with quota packages. Yes it is way how things done usually in Lebanon, but it ends up miserably. Why?
When ISP have quota cheap package 40GB for $20(let's say), and he have $50 unlimited. Assumptions of Ogero management "people who want better connection and can pay extra will pay for this unlimited package, and this way we increase ARPU (Average revenue per user). This is somehow also economics of EU/US companies, but they doesn't work in "resource scarce" Lebanon and again even if they offer quota and unlimited packages - they do it different way.
For most of users already will be enough 40GB 2Mbit new minimal package, and only who will be interested in 2Mbps unlimited is users who needs a lot of bandwidth, means users i described above and heavy downloaders. For companies and serious users who need more bandwidth - ADSL is not interesting in general, because of asymmetry - read: limited upload capacity.

Bandwidth cost in Europe BULK barely $1/Mbit, let's say with transportation it will cost $10, so while on ISP they do profit $160, on end-user it will be only $15. Guess how long this offer will stand truly unlimited, after private ISPs is gone, and there is no more such profit.

andrew55

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

@Nuclearcat IDM is a good company and they have excellent customer support (at least my experience) but their network is saturated and they need to do something about it. Not every politician out there supports the "ogero monopoly" and it has to come to a happy ending one way or another. Sadly the majority of internet users in general don't care about who supplies them with internet as long they have "internet". The rest is is trivial for them.

With regards to the U.S., honestly, i would say it isn't the ideal country to compare internet prices to. Comcast and time-warner cable dominate the cable internet community and don't offer more than 150 mbps for $ 114.95. The same speed is available in many another countries such as Germany and Japan for half the price. Verizon FiOS is mostly available in north-eastern states and it offers speeds up to 500 mbps (> 300 bucks a month). AT&T only offers speeds up to 45 mbps and is also expensive. Hughes Net and other satellite internet providers are expensive and offer limited bandwidth.

So you see the situation is not all that good with regards to internet in the U.S. (relatively speaking to other first world countries) and it will definitely not get any better with the merger of TWC/Comcast in addition to losing "net neutrality".

A good chance is seen with google fiber which offers 1 gbps (up/down) for $ 70 a month (very reasonable price) but it is only available in 3 cities or so and will take a few years to come to other cities...

m_zeid

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

Any news about cable internet more specifically eaglenet ?

never heard of that ISP before, and just checked the MPT website and they are not listed, are they legal?

NuclearVision

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

I'm not sure, but they are are a registered company, assuming this info is not fake.

inetnum     185.4.252.0 - 185.4.255.255
netname     LB-EAGLENET-20120928
descr     EagleNet s.a.r.l.
country     lb
org     ORG-Es135-RIPE
admin-c     AT9814-RIPE
tech-c     AT9814-RIPE
status     ALLOCATED PA
mnt-by     RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
mnt-lower     AT62360-MNT
mnt-routes     AT62360-MNT
source     RIPE # Filtered

Ahmad Toutounji

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

could the finishing of the dwdm fiber optic lead to better ping?and when it's gonna be finished?

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

Any news about cable internet more specifically eaglenet ?

never heard of that ISP before, and just checked the MPT website and they are not listed, are they legal?

They are legal. I'm a bit more aware about them than others.
About bandwidth upgrade - they are same as others, it is unknown if they will get more capacity.

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

@Nuclearcat IDM is a good company and they have excellent customer support (at least my experience) but their network is saturated and they need to do something about it. Not every politician out there supports the "ogero monopoly" and it has to come to a happy ending one way or another. Sadly the majority of internet users in general don't care about who supplies them with internet as long they have "internet". The rest is is trivial for them.

With regards to the U.S., honestly, i would say it isn't the ideal country to compare internet prices to. Comcast and time-warner cable dominate the cable internet community and don't offer more than 150 mbps for $ 114.95. The same speed is available in many another countries such as Germany and Japan for half the price. Verizon FiOS is mostly available in north-eastern states and it offers speeds up to 500 mbps (> 300 bucks a month). AT&T only offers speeds up to 45 mbps and is also expensive. Hughes Net and other satellite internet providers are expensive and offer limited bandwidth.

So you see the situation is not all that good with regards to internet in the U.S. (relatively speaking to other first world countries) and it will definitely not get any better with the merger of TWC/Comcast in addition to losing "net neutrality".

A good chance is seen with google fiber which offers 1 gbps (up/down) for $ 70 a month (very reasonable price) but it is only available in 3 cities or so and will take a few years to come to other cities...

I believe if IDM will not find "heavy artillery" - soon they will be over. Terranet as i know already very bad shape. The issue all those ISPs hostile for "newcomers" like VISP and others, and as result all ISP community not united. I seen enough examples in other countries, that if ISPs are divided - they will be over, and market will be monopolized. In middle east terms it will be terrible for users services and freedom.

I might start to _think_ only comparing Lebanon with such nations(US/EU), when people at least will start using for example turn lights on their cars. Yes, how it is related? It is just one of a signs of developed society, which is required to build infrastructure.
To build high-speed decent infrastructure, that can be extended for whole country, you need organized, civilized and law obeying society. Not sure if anyone interested in details why, but i believe lebanese people will see "pockets" of super-duper gigabit speeds, FTTB, FTTH, FTTC in areas like Hamra, and other areas will continue suffer with low speed unreliable internet, and situation might become even worse for them, as some private ISPs owners who covers rural areas are considering leaving business, due recent decisions, that made competition unfair.

Last edited by nuclearcat (June 20 2014)

NuclearVision

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

Will the torrent throttling persist? I mean  paying 50k for cable internet while the 33$ package offers more bandwidth, normal torrents and real capacity(given the cable fup policy which limits me to 15gb,) I'd go for the second offer(33$ ogero).

chassis

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

guys i just came back from ogero, and the "lady" told me that we can't pick our new packages just yet, and that we need to wait until july 1 .can anyone confirm this ?

hussam

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

When ISP have quota cheap package 40GB for $20(let's say), and he have $50 unlimited. Assumptions of Ogero management "people who want better connection and can pay extra will pay for this unlimited package, and this way we increase ARPU (Average revenue per user). This is somehow also economics of EU/US companies, but they doesn't work in "resource scarce" Lebanon and again even if they offer quota and unlimited packages - they do it different way.
For most of users already will be enough 40GB 2Mbit new minimal package, and only who will be interested in 2Mbps unlimited is users who needs a lot of bandwidth, means users i described above and heavy downloaders. For companies and serious users who need more bandwidth - ADSL is not interesting in general, because of asymmetry - read: limited upload capacity.

Home users want the safely of not going above their quota. The word unlimited makes them feel better even when they don't need it.
Even customers who are likely to only need 30GB per month will get the 50$ unlimited package instead of the 20$/40GB package because it makes them 'feel' they don't have to worry about their consumption.
Ogero exploits that to sell 50$ packages instead of the 20$ packages and they increase their revenue.

Last edited by hussam (June 21 2014)

Ahmad Toutounji

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

chassis,yes i'm with ogero too i went to the central and they told me that i can't choose the new plan until 1 july,we will get the plan we want in 1/8

NuclearVision

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

1/8?! Why that? I thought private ISPs are already changing customers plan to run it as of 1/7 correct me if I'm wrong.

Ahmad Toutounji

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

in ogero, the new plans will be applied on 1/7 but the plans the customer want on 1/8, so maybe they will run the plan on 1/7 based on what we pay for now for example i pay 50$ for 2mb 20gb,i think they will run the 2mb unlimited plan on 1/7

NuclearVision

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

@ahmad thanks this seems much more logic.

ILIA_93

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

As far as I remember, we (Ogero folks) all got the 1Mbps 4GB plan at the beginning of the previous speed increase, and had to go to the central and ask for the upgrade. I was on 256Kbps back then. I think the same will happen now.

maulader

Member

Re: Internet in Lebanon - General Questions

in ogero, the new plans will be applied on 1/7 but the plans the customer want on 1/8, so maybe they will run the plan on 1/7 based on what we pay for now for example i pay 50$ for 2mb 20gb,i think they will run the 2mb unlimited plan on 1/7

The new plans will be applied at 1/7 comparing to our plans as you mentioned, but we can choose other plans starting 1/7 which will then be applied at 1/8.
I called Ogero and combining what they told me with all the comments posted here, this is my conclusion.