The Iot (internet of things) industry has really taken off in the last couple of years. I have some experience in that field as i equiped my house 2 years ago with home automation. There is now way more cost effective and easier methods to do home automation with more functionalities. Like linking it to Google home, amazon echo and some cool platforms like iftt. I am sure you are well aware of that as i see you are passionate about it. As for the argument don't go wireless i don't find it valid because if a house is equipped with a mesh wifi system and a reliable internet connection all should be fine. I would highly recommend considering the new alternative if you want to invest in this market.
Home Automation (Z-Wave)
The way I see it :bobo619 wrote There is now way more cost effective and easier methods to do home automation with more functionalities. Like linking it to Google home, amazon echo and some cool platforms like iftt. I am sure you are well aware of that as i see you are passionate about it. As for the argument don't go wireless i don't find it valid because if a house is equipped with a mesh wifi system and a reliable internet connection all should be fine. I would highly recommend considering the new alternative if you want to invest in this market.
Easier to install --> less secure
Cheaper --> more complicated to use
There's a reason why a complete " home automation " would cost anything between $2K up to $150k....
I've had many cheaper alternatives like KNX , Zigbee,Z-wave, Samsung smartthings etc... before pulling the trigger on a Crestron system and here's why
1 - They're in the business since the beginning of home automation and they are one of the most reliable; top reputation.
2- They offer a complete portfolio or solution to all your needs.
3- Although proprietary protocol, it's an echo system just like Apple. They can also be integrated with some KNX products
4- Support and Warranty
The major players in the home automation industry are 4 : Crestron, Control4, Savant and Lutron for lighting probably.
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The cheaper alternative can't do AV processing and distribution, end of story.
Of course you can do multi-room Audio with Sonos or Airplay2 devices but just like Amazon echo, these are complementary, They are integrated natively in your home automation system.
Amazon Echo will help you control your HA instead of using the remote control or phone; it's far from being part of the automation.
My final interpretation is that anything that doesn't involve programming for integration and one control point ( One app / one remote control ) for everything IMO is not home automation.
Regarding last statement, IF I really have to go wireless, the last thing I need is deploying a mesh wifi system ( Orbi, AmplifiHD,Google etc..).
AP with ethernet backhaul is the way to go. You will never beat even a decent wired AP system with any kind of mesh, even the attempts at tri-radio solutions. RF spectrum is a finite resource, and if you use one big chunk, it's less for everything else so I went for Ubiquity APs.
I wasn't happy when I had to do all the rewiring but unless you're going for the simple smart things, I wouldn't connect every wireless device, do AV steaming, video surveillance and download while controlling my apartment on single wireless connection.
And for the cherry on top, If for any reason you have to reboot your router, everything is down.
Last but not least, you won't really experience what I'm trying to elaborate until you really expand your integration while trying to cover the whole apartment.
You were pointing me in one direction and then you lost me when you said it's not automation.
Your example:
Say It's 5:00 PM , the sunset -> Open shades -> turn on lights A,B,C -> Reduce A/C fan speed - > blabla
Okay, maybe I'm missing something but I feel I'm achieving the same thing when I enter a geolocation and it is tied down to work only between sunset to sunrise. It may be inferior products but it does achieve the same result.
The CoolMasterNet system kind of helped me understand what you're trying to say, it's all on one system. But I'm still able to do the same controls through an IR blaster since all split A/C units are controlled that way. That same blaster will help me control the AV equipment. And the devices all do talk to each other, they check each others status before performing an action. Motion detector triggers the lights if they're not on.
I think you are more focused on streaming, but I don't understand how home automation works with streaming aside from say "movie time", lights off, projector screen down, AV system on. What part of the home automation system will handle streaming or video surveillance? Or am I mixing things up? The cheaper alternative can't do AV processing and distribution. Help me understand.
Amazon Echo helps control the automation but Alexa also has Skills & Routines that help do the automation just like IFTTT.
I have 3 access points in my house and they are all connected by cables. Most of the equipment connects ZigBee or 2.4ghz while the 5ghz is for my Echo/FireTV/Xbox so I really don't see any congestion impact.
I looked at KNX and read a about it, and you're telling me what you're installing is superior to that. When I read about KNX, almost every single thing said that this is for commercial usage and for large scale things like business complexes or hotels and was complete overkill for a home. Just didn't make sense after reading that to have to install a couple of breakers and an entire panel, oh and do all this expensive cabling in the house for home automation, it makes me feel like the old days when you needed a huge room for a computer to do simple calculations. And now we have calculators.
When I think AV processing I think things like Plex server which isn't what you're thinking or trying to achieve.
Your example:
Say It's 5:00 PM , the sunset -> Open shades -> turn on lights A,B,C -> Reduce A/C fan speed - > blabla
Okay, maybe I'm missing something but I feel I'm achieving the same thing when I enter a geolocation and it is tied down to work only between sunset to sunrise. It may be inferior products but it does achieve the same result.
The CoolMasterNet system kind of helped me understand what you're trying to say, it's all on one system. But I'm still able to do the same controls through an IR blaster since all split A/C units are controlled that way. That same blaster will help me control the AV equipment. And the devices all do talk to each other, they check each others status before performing an action. Motion detector triggers the lights if they're not on.
I think you are more focused on streaming, but I don't understand how home automation works with streaming aside from say "movie time", lights off, projector screen down, AV system on. What part of the home automation system will handle streaming or video surveillance? Or am I mixing things up? The cheaper alternative can't do AV processing and distribution. Help me understand.
Amazon Echo helps control the automation but Alexa also has Skills & Routines that help do the automation just like IFTTT.
I have 3 access points in my house and they are all connected by cables. Most of the equipment connects ZigBee or 2.4ghz while the 5ghz is for my Echo/FireTV/Xbox so I really don't see any congestion impact.
I looked at KNX and read a about it, and you're telling me what you're installing is superior to that. When I read about KNX, almost every single thing said that this is for commercial usage and for large scale things like business complexes or hotels and was complete overkill for a home. Just didn't make sense after reading that to have to install a couple of breakers and an entire panel, oh and do all this expensive cabling in the house for home automation, it makes me feel like the old days when you needed a huge room for a computer to do simple calculations. And now we have calculators.
When I think AV processing I think things like Plex server which isn't what you're thinking or trying to achieve.
Alright it's like 3 in the morning and I'm a bit sleepy but it's an interesting conversation. Let me tell you where's the real difference because it's getting more complicated.
First, we should agree that KNX is not a product or solution, it's a protocol and it was done specifically for residential home automation with the option to expand. It's more like an open source OS compared to a proprietary one such as Crestron or Control4 and yes Crestron is, according to every review specialized in HA far superior but that's not the point of the debate.
IMO, Home Automation is not only controlling A,B and C. It's about entertainment as well and that's why the AV solution is very expensive, because you can't achieve it with entry level products.
When I talk about AV processing and streaming, I'm not talking about Plex. I'm talking about 4K HDMI switchers and multiplexers.
I am also talking about multi-channel - multi-room Amplifiers.
Every room has it's own Audio and Video channel. Say you're in the living room watching football, you tell Alexa to switch output to bedroom 1 or you do it from your phone or Crestron remote control.
You can also tell Alexa to turn on the A/C in Bedroom 1 before you join. The audio signal of the channel you're watching is redirected to the speakers in the room you wish to sit.
Say you're playing on spotify, Deezer or Tidal, you can play the music in each and every room or you can airplay / cast from your mobile to the AV processor and get the output anywhere in your house through ceiling / wall speakers etc..
The whole idea behind it is a clean setup. No need for Sat receiver/ Blu-R player etc.. in every room. There's a centralized solution say in a server closet that's handling everything.
In my situation, the AV Processor is connected to two CableVision receivers, Nvidia shield and one BR player; the multi-room amp is connected to an Airplay2 receiver, Bluesound node2i for music streaming and internet radio / FM tuner.
The Video signal is transmitted through Cat6a cables so no need for coaxial cables.
As for the video surveillance, the camera is communicating with the HA through RTSP so the HA app or screens can access the live or recorded sessions, can do whichever scenario you want when detecting motions ( inside or outside ) etc...
I got myself this which is a bit overkill but IMO totally worth the money as it's a replacement for NVR, NAS and server. It's a Ubiquity Xeon server running Ubuntu, it does 4K trans-coding when necessary and has 12 TB of RAID1 storage. Mostly FLAC music and Ripped DVDs
It also has the wireless controller that manages the access points to minimize/eliminate the hand-off.


To Sum it up... if you can give me a product or solution that does :
-Centralized automation using one control point
-Clean integration and simple interface
-Endless customization
-AV processing
-Reliable Direct and indirect lighting control for led lights including dimming
-Complete HVAC control
-Software upgrade and support
i'll be glad to switch tomorrow. People are not stupid to spend thousands if there was the same for less. And no I don't think your argument about the computer room is valid. It's more like comparing an iPhone to a Chinese replica where you need to look for any app you want on the internet so you can download and install it. It's more like DIY vs ready to go.
BTW, KNX is really good and it was a 2nd option but for an all-in-one, I went with Crestron. More expensive but less headache.
Below is a nice article comparing different solutions for lighting only, note that Lutron are pioneer in this field, and that's just lighting :
https://www.customcontrols.co.uk/blog/lutron-lighting-vs-knx-vs-zwaverf/
First, we should agree that KNX is not a product or solution, it's a protocol and it was done specifically for residential home automation with the option to expand. It's more like an open source OS compared to a proprietary one such as Crestron or Control4 and yes Crestron is, according to every review specialized in HA far superior but that's not the point of the debate.
IMO, Home Automation is not only controlling A,B and C. It's about entertainment as well and that's why the AV solution is very expensive, because you can't achieve it with entry level products.
When I talk about AV processing and streaming, I'm not talking about Plex. I'm talking about 4K HDMI switchers and multiplexers.
I am also talking about multi-channel - multi-room Amplifiers.
Every room has it's own Audio and Video channel. Say you're in the living room watching football, you tell Alexa to switch output to bedroom 1 or you do it from your phone or Crestron remote control.
You can also tell Alexa to turn on the A/C in Bedroom 1 before you join. The audio signal of the channel you're watching is redirected to the speakers in the room you wish to sit.
Say you're playing on spotify, Deezer or Tidal, you can play the music in each and every room or you can airplay / cast from your mobile to the AV processor and get the output anywhere in your house through ceiling / wall speakers etc..
The whole idea behind it is a clean setup. No need for Sat receiver/ Blu-R player etc.. in every room. There's a centralized solution say in a server closet that's handling everything.
In my situation, the AV Processor is connected to two CableVision receivers, Nvidia shield and one BR player; the multi-room amp is connected to an Airplay2 receiver, Bluesound node2i for music streaming and internet radio / FM tuner.
The Video signal is transmitted through Cat6a cables so no need for coaxial cables.
As for the video surveillance, the camera is communicating with the HA through RTSP so the HA app or screens can access the live or recorded sessions, can do whichever scenario you want when detecting motions ( inside or outside ) etc...
I got myself this which is a bit overkill but IMO totally worth the money as it's a replacement for NVR, NAS and server. It's a Ubiquity Xeon server running Ubuntu, it does 4K trans-coding when necessary and has 12 TB of RAID1 storage. Mostly FLAC music and Ripped DVDs
It also has the wireless controller that manages the access points to minimize/eliminate the hand-off.


To Sum it up... if you can give me a product or solution that does :
-Centralized automation using one control point
-Clean integration and simple interface
-Endless customization
-AV processing
-Reliable Direct and indirect lighting control for led lights including dimming
-Complete HVAC control
-Software upgrade and support
i'll be glad to switch tomorrow. People are not stupid to spend thousands if there was the same for less. And no I don't think your argument about the computer room is valid. It's more like comparing an iPhone to a Chinese replica where you need to look for any app you want on the internet so you can download and install it. It's more like DIY vs ready to go.
BTW, KNX is really good and it was a 2nd option but for an all-in-one, I went with Crestron. More expensive but less headache.
Below is a nice article comparing different solutions for lighting only, note that Lutron are pioneer in this field, and that's just lighting :
https://www.customcontrols.co.uk/blog/lutron-lighting-vs-knx-vs-zwaverf/
First off, this is not a debate. I'm trying to learn the difference.
From what I gather, your main goal is to server media throughout the house from one central location. Changing inputs on your TV is not the end game, but that it is all being served from one server. Okay, I personally see that as a media server of sorts, not really home automation, but that's fine.
Yes, my cheaper solution of FireTV's is not as sophisticated but it does get the job done when I want to resume something upstairs and I'm watching it downstairs (yes if it is streaming content, and yes that is the only thing my wife and I watch, 5 years without seeing a commercial or credits). Xbox Remote Gaming works as well, I play on 3 different TV's in the house, they each have crappy cheap Intel computer sticks in them. It is not as beautiful as yours possibly, but it works, and it does so without any problem (as long as the xbox is connected by a network cable).
I remember I visited this house a long long time ago that had audio cables spread throughout the house and it was something similar to what you wanted, it was much less technologically advanced but it was cool how they had one central location for all the audio needs and could send audio to whatever room they wanted. I think it lost its appeal within the first year for them, they never used it because having one central location for audio serving was really uncomfortable.
Now this is where it becomes a debate:
So in your case, you have your sat receiver and DVD player in one place serving the entire house. I'll give you my house as an example why that won't work. We have 3 satellite receivers in the house (my LNB has 4 outputs) and they are each playing something different at the same time for at least 1 hour everyday. My parents will watch something, my kids will watch something, and the maid will watch something. The DVD player is another thing, if it wasn't for streaming movies it just wouldn't work. My kids watch their streaming shows, and then I want to watch my show, if we had one DVD player, it wouldn't work. Plus, getting up and going to another room to change the DVD? I don't know if you have kids, but using a FireTV is the best thing ever, I have kid mode on and let them use the remote control, and being more than one kid in the room, they watch parts of 3-4 different shows in the span of an hour, each one fighting about what to watch for 15mins. Spotify which is a great example because we do use it in the house, already plays in every room that has a TV (using FireTV) or Echo device in it which I already do, or hell even our phones. I will be listening upstairs and my wife will be listening & working downstairs. She doesn't have an Echo there but she has a cheapo Lenovo tablet that doesn't give her any problem for streaming any AV. And with Spotify, we can decide if we want to broadcast it to other devices from whatever phone/tablet is in our hand already playing. Now let's say I didn't want to do this the legal way of subscribing to these streaming services, well that's where Plex would come in handy and you know that plays on everything. The only part where I see this really being an advantage is with the cameras, our current NVR is tucked away hidden somewhere, I could connect it to the internet but I don't like doing that. My 2 dlink cameras that I have inside the house however can be viewed from the FireTV and if I had an Echo Spot or Echo Show I could view them from there as well.
Anyways, to answer your question:
-Centralized automation using one control point - Alexa / HomeKit / Google Home can achieve that
-Clean integration and simple interface - same as above and I think this is more geared towards personal taste of what is clean/simple. I find Android cleaner and simpler than iOS for example.
-Endless customization - same as above, but combined with IFTTT and apilio.io
-AV processing - DEF. not how you want it. I've never even read home automation and media serving together in how you want it. But OK.
-Reliable Direct and indirect lighting control for led lights including dimming - Like I said earlier, I couldn't find dimmers but the light controls are reliable.
-Complete HVAC control - This I would like to learn more about from you.
So with HVAC. We're talking radiators/furnace as well as your AC I take it? So how are you handling those requests? For the AC I'm using an IR blaster like mentioned before. For the furnace, I have 3 options, I can setup a thermostat wherever it's wired. Or I can setup a thermostat with a remote sensor. Or I could forget that main thermostat and just put a controller to start/stop the furnace and setup different thermostats throughout the property and each one can give the furnace the start/stop command. So if room 1&2 are OK but room 3 is cold, it gives the start command until it reaches the temperature.
All in all this is very educational for me, appreciate the discussion.
From what I gather, your main goal is to server media throughout the house from one central location. Changing inputs on your TV is not the end game, but that it is all being served from one server. Okay, I personally see that as a media server of sorts, not really home automation, but that's fine.
Yes, my cheaper solution of FireTV's is not as sophisticated but it does get the job done when I want to resume something upstairs and I'm watching it downstairs (yes if it is streaming content, and yes that is the only thing my wife and I watch, 5 years without seeing a commercial or credits). Xbox Remote Gaming works as well, I play on 3 different TV's in the house, they each have crappy cheap Intel computer sticks in them. It is not as beautiful as yours possibly, but it works, and it does so without any problem (as long as the xbox is connected by a network cable).
I remember I visited this house a long long time ago that had audio cables spread throughout the house and it was something similar to what you wanted, it was much less technologically advanced but it was cool how they had one central location for all the audio needs and could send audio to whatever room they wanted. I think it lost its appeal within the first year for them, they never used it because having one central location for audio serving was really uncomfortable.
Now this is where it becomes a debate:
So in your case, you have your sat receiver and DVD player in one place serving the entire house. I'll give you my house as an example why that won't work. We have 3 satellite receivers in the house (my LNB has 4 outputs) and they are each playing something different at the same time for at least 1 hour everyday. My parents will watch something, my kids will watch something, and the maid will watch something. The DVD player is another thing, if it wasn't for streaming movies it just wouldn't work. My kids watch their streaming shows, and then I want to watch my show, if we had one DVD player, it wouldn't work. Plus, getting up and going to another room to change the DVD? I don't know if you have kids, but using a FireTV is the best thing ever, I have kid mode on and let them use the remote control, and being more than one kid in the room, they watch parts of 3-4 different shows in the span of an hour, each one fighting about what to watch for 15mins. Spotify which is a great example because we do use it in the house, already plays in every room that has a TV (using FireTV) or Echo device in it which I already do, or hell even our phones. I will be listening upstairs and my wife will be listening & working downstairs. She doesn't have an Echo there but she has a cheapo Lenovo tablet that doesn't give her any problem for streaming any AV. And with Spotify, we can decide if we want to broadcast it to other devices from whatever phone/tablet is in our hand already playing. Now let's say I didn't want to do this the legal way of subscribing to these streaming services, well that's where Plex would come in handy and you know that plays on everything. The only part where I see this really being an advantage is with the cameras, our current NVR is tucked away hidden somewhere, I could connect it to the internet but I don't like doing that. My 2 dlink cameras that I have inside the house however can be viewed from the FireTV and if I had an Echo Spot or Echo Show I could view them from there as well.
Anyways, to answer your question:
-Centralized automation using one control point - Alexa / HomeKit / Google Home can achieve that
-Clean integration and simple interface - same as above and I think this is more geared towards personal taste of what is clean/simple. I find Android cleaner and simpler than iOS for example.
-Endless customization - same as above, but combined with IFTTT and apilio.io
-AV processing - DEF. not how you want it. I've never even read home automation and media serving together in how you want it. But OK.
-Reliable Direct and indirect lighting control for led lights including dimming - Like I said earlier, I couldn't find dimmers but the light controls are reliable.
-Complete HVAC control - This I would like to learn more about from you.
So with HVAC. We're talking radiators/furnace as well as your AC I take it? So how are you handling those requests? For the AC I'm using an IR blaster like mentioned before. For the furnace, I have 3 options, I can setup a thermostat wherever it's wired. Or I can setup a thermostat with a remote sensor. Or I could forget that main thermostat and just put a controller to start/stop the furnace and setup different thermostats throughout the property and each one can give the furnace the start/stop command. So if room 1&2 are OK but room 3 is cold, it gives the start command until it reaches the temperature.
All in all this is very educational for me, appreciate the discussion.
It's not my main goal, it's part of the entertainment; AV is a major part of home automation at least for many, it gives you the "Wow" effect when everything is setup the right way.beezer wroteFirst off, this is not a debate. I'm trying to learn the difference.
From what I gather, your main goal is to server media throughout the house from one central location. Changing inputs on your TV is not the end game, but that it is all being served from one server. Okay, I personally see that as a media server of sorts, not really home automation, but that's fine.
That means it's not setup the right way. One central location without accessibility from every room is a waste of time. When you put everything together in one location, you forget about it, you don't touch it.beezer wroteI remember I visited this house a long long time ago that had audio cables spread throughout the house and it was something similar to what you wanted, it was much less technologically advanced but it was cool how they had one central location for all the audio needs and could send audio to whatever room they wanted. I think it lost its appeal within the first year for them, they never used it because having one central location for audio serving was really uncomfortable.
For instance each room has its own in-wall screen where you can choose what to listen to ( Spotify,Deezer, DLNA, FM, etc ) what to turn on ( lights, shades, indirect light, A/C) and what to watch ( source) on your tv with voice commands.
I think we're confusing things here; You're talking about HDMI splitters; I am talking about HDMI-Matrix. Say I have 3 TVs and Cablevision wants to install 3 boxes; it doesn't have to be installed in every room. They all are connected to one HDMI matrix. You chose any source from the TV you have many options like ( Cablevision SAT, DVD, Plex MS, Netflix etc.. ) the HDMI matrix will send you the signal of any CV box not in use. So every TV has everything as if it was directly connected but the difference is that the TV is wall mounted with nothing really attached to it.beezer wroteNow this is where it becomes a debate:
So in your case, you have your sat receiver and DVD player in one place serving the entire house. I'll give you my house as an example why that won't work. We have 3 satellite receivers in the house (my LNB has 4 outputs) and they are each playing something different at the same time for at least 1 hour everyday. My parents will watch something, my kids will watch something, and the maid will watch something. The DVD player is another thing, if it wasn't for streaming movies it just wouldn't work. My kids watch their streaming shows, and then I want to watch my show, if we had one DVD player, it wouldn't work. Plus, getting up and going to another room to change the DVD? I don't know if you have kids, but using a FireTV is the best thing ever, I have kid mode on and let them use the remote control, and being more than one kid in the room, they watch parts of 3-4 different shows in the span of an hour, each one fighting about what to watch for 15mins. Spotify which is a great example because we do use it in the house, already plays in every room that has a TV (using FireTV) or Echo device in it which I already do, or hell even our phones. I will be listening upstairs and my wife will be listening & working downstairs. She doesn't have an Echo there but she has a cheapo Lenovo tablet that doesn't give her any problem for streaming any AV. And with Spotify, we can decide if we want to broadcast it to other devices from whatever phone/tablet is in our hand already playing. Now let's say I didn't want to do this the legal way of subscribing to these streaming services, well that's where Plex would come in handy and you know that plays on everything. The only part where I see this really being an advantage is with the cameras, our current NVR is tucked away hidden somewhere, I could connect it to the internet but I don't like doing that. My 2 dlink cameras that I have inside the house however can be viewed from the FireTV and if I had an Echo Spot or Echo Show I could view them from there as well.
No they can't. How can they? Does Alexa change the fan mode of your AC or turn off all lights when you leave you apartment? It has to be connected to a HA system that is capable of doing that.beezer wroteAnyways, to answer your question:
-Centralized automation using one control point - Alexa / HomeKit / Google Home can achieve that
Quoting Wikipedia : Home automation or domotics[1] is building automation for a home, called a smart home or smart house. A home automation system will control lighting, climate, entertainment systems, and appliances. It may also include home security such as access control and alarm systems.[2] When connected with the Internet, home devices are an important constituent of the Internet of Things.A home automation system typically connects controlled devices to a central hub or "gateway"[3]. The user interface for control of the system uses either wall-mounted terminals, tablet or desktop computers, a mobile phone .application, or a Web interface, that may also be accessible off-site through the Internetbeezer wrote -AV processing - DEF. not how you want it. I've never even read home automation and media serving together in how you want it. But OK.
Also quoting: "Smart Home" is the term commonly used to define a residence that has appliances, lighting, heating, air conditioning, TVs, computers, entertainment audio & video systems, security, and camera systems that are capable of communicating with one another and can be controlled remotely by a time schedule, from any room in the home, as well as remotely from any location in the world by phone or internet.
Actually home automation strongest selling point is the AV integration and that's what vendors always work on to improve because the technology is always evolving and with everything being streamed nowadays they try-hard to keep up with the market needs.
And to be dead honest if it wasn't for AV i wouldn't have gone for HA in the first place. Nothing really interesting about telling Alexa to turn on the lights whatsoever, at least for me.
In my case it's totally different. I have one fireplace and A/C indoor unit in every room that is part of a central A/C. Say it's Mitsubishi, every indoor unit is connected to one main central control panel ( big remote control ) which is connected to the CoolMasterNet connected to the HA processor.beezer wrote -Complete HVAC control - This I would like to learn more about from you.
So with HVAC. We're talking radiators/furnace as well as your AC I take it? So how are you handling those requests? For the AC I'm using an IR blaster like mentioned before. For the furnace, I have 3 options, I can setup a thermostat wherever it's wired. Or I can setup a thermostat with a remote sensor. Or I could forget that main thermostat and just put a controller to start/stop the furnace and setup different thermostats throughout the property and each one can give the furnace the start/stop command. So if room 1&2 are OK but room 3 is cold, it gives the start command until it reaches the temperature.
For the fireplace, it has it's own mertik maxitrol box. It connects to the home network and what's nice about Crestron is that they have a logic that can control it. You just need to download it and the processor will take care of it. A nice GUI page will be added to the control screen.
Alexa through the Echo Plus (which accepts ZigBee devices) is my one control point, it does all that you're asking in that sentence. It literally turns the lights on when I reach the geolocation by talking directly to the devices and then turns them off when I leave.No they can't. How can they? Does Alexa change the fan mode of your AC or turn off all lights when you leave you apartment? It has to be connected to a HA system that is capable of doing that.
Now I have some WiFi devices that are in another system but that system works with Alexa through the Skills feature. So I guess you can say it's not a central point, but I never open the other app, I use Alexa that talks to it. The only thing I did with that app was register the device.
I'm waiting on my next few shipments to expand this test, after that I will see and judge for myself if wired is better than wireless to justify the headache and cost.
3 months later
- Edited
Just entered this field lately .
Currently using Lenovo smart display as my main control ( google voice assistant)
with some "smart life" and "ewelink" apps/products. Everything is wireless it's been two weeks so far with no problem.
My little kids love to stream their favorite animations on the ultra chromecast using voice commands.
Currently using Lenovo smart display as my main control ( google voice assistant)
with some "smart life" and "ewelink" apps/products. Everything is wireless it's been two weeks so far with no problem.
My little kids love to stream their favorite animations on the ultra chromecast using voice commands.
- Edited
Same here, guess some people like complexity and have too much time. I would only do it the industrial/wired way if it was an actual industrial building. I had an early 2000s apartment with Z-Wave, around ~15 years and still rocking. My current house is mostly Vimar Z-wave for wiring devices.elserge82 wroteJust entered this field lately .
Currently using Lenovo smart display as my main control ( google voice assistant)
with some "smart life" and "ewelink" apps/products. Everything is wireless it's been two weeks so far with no problem.
My little kids love to stream their favorite animations on the ultra chromecast using voice commands.
I have 3 of this same setup with zigbee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXLI0IBb67Y for 3 years now, not a single drop out. I ofcourse wouldn't do such thing for a production building, where 1 minute downtime is worth a fortune, its just a simple house. Talking about security is way too paranoid realistically, I would start with an electric fence which I'm sure non here use, neither a heavily loaded security cameras around a house with an alert system. Automation security breach could be more use of trolling and privacy issues like data collection. I would like a reasonable example of such safety issues. (not to mention that even a node of a wired device can be hacked as well, lets not talk about the 99% that still uses modem/router combo which always has outdated firmware)
Now here's the other side of a (maybe) useful complexity:
I'm switching to LoRa soon for auxiliary sensors which I'm using them for the following:
-3 weather stations on each side of the house (depending on sun angle etc)
-Cistern level, water tank level
-power quality
-solar power delivery info(soon)
-outdoor lights control based on sun angle and outdoor light intensity
-controlling and deriving info of an old generator with rs-485 signal
-manual breaker auto re-closer override for private electricity (breaker is a bit far from the house and no Z curve breaker available here) also useful for accidental overload.
-water heaters (5) low temp warning (2 of them only run on public elec., manual override to private in case they go cold)
- DIY made Private/Public/Backup-Genset notification light mounted in each room on one outlet with spare socket. I added a strobe function as well since the house mostly runs on UPS, difficult to notice switch overs. Beep sound is annoying while sleeping.
-Selectivity system for UPS which is also DIY, Z-wave for monitoring and notification only. Useful in case a socket is overloaded, keeping all other sockets alive. Selects based on average load (e.g Socket A pulling 70%, socket B starts pulling 50%, drops B even if A goes 0% for few seconds, needs ~15 seconds to have the remainder power on B socket)
Edit: Btw I'm using domoticz with Lua scripting for custom and complex automation, way trivial than dyi-ng a backend.
What are the benefits behind using your new sensors if I may ask?:)Elitism Guru wroteSame here, guess some people like complexity and have too much time. I would only do it the industrial/wired way if it was an actual industrial building. I had an early 2000s apartment with Z-Wave, around ~15 years and still rocking. My current house is mostly Vimar Z-wave for wiring devices.elserge82 wroteJust entered this field lately .
Currently using Lenovo smart display as my main control ( google voice assistant)
with some "smart life" and "ewelink" apps/products. Everything is wireless it's been two weeks so far with no problem.
My little kids love to stream their favorite animations on the ultra chromecast using voice commands.
I have 3 of this same setup with zigbee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXLI0IBb67Y for 3 years now, not a single drop out. I ofcourse wouldn't do such thing for a production building, where 1 minute downtime is worth a fortune, its just a simple house. Talking about security is way too paranoid realistically, I would start with an electric fence which I'm sure non here use, neither a heavily loaded security cameras around a house with an alert system. Automation security breach could be more use of trolling and privacy issues like data collection. I would like a reasonable example of such safety issues. (not to mention that even a node of a wired device can be hacked as well, lets not talk about the 99% that still uses modem/router combo which always has outdated firmware)
Now here's the other side of a (maybe) useful complexity:
I'm switching to LoRa soon for auxiliary sensors which I'm using them for the following:
-3 weather stations on each side of the house (depending on sun angle etc)
-Cistern level, water tank level
-power quality
-solar power delivery info(soon)
-outdoor lights control based on sun angle and outdoor light intensity
-controlling and deriving info of an old generator with rs-485 signal
-manual breaker auto re-closer override for private electricity (breaker is a bit far from the house and no Z curve breaker available here) also useful for accidental overload.
-water heaters (5) low temp warning (2 of them only run on public elec., manual override to private in case they go cold)
- DIY made Private/Public/Backup-Genset notification light mounted in each room on one outlet with spare socket. I added a strobe function as well since the house mostly runs on UPS, difficult to notice switch overs. Beep sound is annoying while sleeping.
-Selectivity system for UPS which is also DIY, Z-wave for monitoring and notification only. Useful in case a socket is overloaded, keeping all other sockets alive. Selects based on average load (e.g Socket A pulling 70%, socket B starts pulling 50%, drops B even if A goes 0% for few seconds, needs ~15 seconds to have the remainder power on B socket)
Edit: Btw I'm using domoticz with Lua scripting for custom and complex automation, way trivial than dyi-ng a backend.
(Trying to find some interesting useful scenarios.)
- Edited
In chronological order:elserge82 wroteWhat are the benefits behind using your new sensors if I may ask?:)Elitism Guru wroteSame here, guess some people like complexity and have too much time. I would only do it the industrial/wired way if it was an actual industrial building. I had an early 2000s apartment with Z-Wave, around ~15 years and still rocking. My current house is mostly Vimar Z-wave for wiring devices.elserge82 wroteJust entered this field lately .
Currently using Lenovo smart display as my main control ( google voice assistant)
with some "smart life" and "ewelink" apps/products. Everything is wireless it's been two weeks so far with no problem.
My little kids love to stream their favorite animations on the ultra chromecast using voice commands.
I have 3 of this same setup with zigbee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXLI0IBb67Y for 3 years now, not a single drop out. I ofcourse wouldn't do such thing for a production building, where 1 minute downtime is worth a fortune, its just a simple house. Talking about security is way too paranoid realistically, I would start with an electric fence which I'm sure non here use, neither a heavily loaded security cameras around a house with an alert system. Automation security breach could be more use of trolling and privacy issues like data collection. I would like a reasonable example of such safety issues. (not to mention that even a node of a wired device can be hacked as well, lets not talk about the 99% that still uses modem/router combo which always has outdated firmware)
Now here's the other side of a (maybe) useful complexity:
I'm switching to LoRa soon for auxiliary sensors which I'm using them for the following:
-3 weather stations on each side of the house (depending on sun angle etc)
-Cistern level, water tank level
-power quality
-solar power delivery info(soon)
-outdoor lights control based on sun angle and outdoor light intensity
-controlling and deriving info of an old generator with rs-485 signal
-manual breaker auto re-closer override for private electricity (breaker is a bit far from the house and no Z curve breaker available here) also useful for accidental overload.
-water heaters (5) low temp warning (2 of them only run on public elec., manual override to private in case they go cold)
- DIY made Private/Public/Backup-Genset notification light mounted in each room on one outlet with spare socket. I added a strobe function as well since the house mostly runs on UPS, difficult to notice switch overs. Beep sound is annoying while sleeping.
-Selectivity system for UPS which is also DIY, Z-wave for monitoring and notification only. Useful in case a socket is overloaded, keeping all other sockets alive. Selects based on average load (e.g Socket A pulling 70%, socket B starts pulling 50%, drops B even if A goes 0% for few seconds, needs ~15 seconds to have the remainder power on B socket)
Edit: Btw I'm using domoticz with Lua scripting for custom and complex automation, way trivial than dyi-ng a backend.
(Trying to find some interesting useful scenarios.)
-Weather data as my area doesn't have any proper temperature reporting service online, its always +/-5C and no working weather prediction.
-Water tank level, as you know in Lebanon you have to pay mafias to get water, we've had multiple occurrences where water was very low, not to mention pumping muddy water.
-Power quality when using Private electricity information is useful when diagnosing issues, we mostly use it as a quick look when trying to draw large like a vacuum while having temporary resistance heater on somewhere, not to exceed "ishterak" capacity.
-Solar power logging is obviously needed for adjustments during seasons, knowing how much you saved per month when calculating bills.
-Sick of changing outdoor lights time depending on fog/winter/summer timing and clouds.
-It would be wasteful to replace a generator for a modern HMI. (starting gen, checking temps etc)
-auto recloser in case of accidental overload on ishterak since its around 20 A, our publ-ic electricity is 60A. trips and reset twice, a minute between then opens until manual reset.
-water heater temperature for a simple warning when they're off (ishterak), im switching to heat pump based water heaters soon from Ariston so this feature will be removed. (standard "Azan" is around 1500/2000W, heatpump is around 250W only, also has proper internal insulation, 50c water stays 45-50 for 6 hours)
-Indicator lights are useful for knowing what type of electricity you have, last time I needed to weld something, and we had ~3 power changes in an hour, pretty exhausting to go to the control room each time to check before drawing large loads (3kW and more)
-Selectivity for UPS is obvious, as described. You don't want lighting/PCs/TVs etc to blackout when someone plugs a hairdryer/vaccum in the wrong outlet forgetting to read "UPS" label. (each outlet has a switch to switch between ups and bypass/regular) Even if the UPS can handle it, as each port has a slightly limited current for stabilized total draw.
Edit: I must add that I don't have any "smart" lights anywhere as I don't find them useful, not to mention that they're never future proof.
Most of the sensor modules are compatible with OSS, and the hardware is very common, easy to repair and replaced by a future possible home-stay or any resident temporary or permanent (Selling), when the product goes obsolete by then aswell. I switched from openHAB (industry standard) to Domoticz and never looked back. Switching to LoRa is seamless, as I have the transceivers work as module, even existing integrated wifi/bt hardware are translated)
Elitism Guru wroteIn chronological order:elserge82 wroteWhat are the benefits behind using your new sensors if I may ask?:)Elitism Guru wrote Same here, guess some people like complexity and have too much time. I would only do it the industrial/wired way if it was an actual industrial building. I had an early 2000s apartment with Z-Wave, around ~15 years and still rocking. My current house is mostly Vimar Z-wave for wiring devices.
I have 3 of this same setup with zigbee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXLI0IBb67Y for 3 years now, not a single drop out. I ofcourse wouldn't do such thing for a production building, where 1 minute downtime is worth a fortune, its just a simple house. Talking about security is way too paranoid realistically, I would start with an electric fence which I'm sure non here use, neither a heavily loaded security cameras around a house with an alert system. Automation security breach could be more use of trolling and privacy issues like data collection. I would like a reasonable example of such safety issues. (not to mention that even a node of a wired device can be hacked as well, lets not talk about the 99% that still uses modem/router combo which always has outdated firmware)
Now here's the other side of a (maybe) useful complexity:
I'm switching to LoRa soon for auxiliary sensors which I'm using them for the following:
-3 weather stations on each side of the house (depending on sun angle etc)
-Cistern level, water tank level
-power quality
-solar power delivery info(soon)
-outdoor lights control based on sun angle and outdoor light intensity
-controlling and deriving info of an old generator with rs-485 signal
-manual breaker auto re-closer override for private electricity (breaker is a bit far from the house and no Z curve breaker available here) also useful for accidental overload.
-water heaters (5) low temp warning (2 of them only run on public elec., manual override to private in case they go cold)
- DIY made Private/Public/Backup-Genset notification light mounted in each room on one outlet with spare socket. I added a strobe function as well since the house mostly runs on UPS, difficult to notice switch overs. Beep sound is annoying while sleeping.
-Selectivity system for UPS which is also DIY, Z-wave for monitoring and notification only. Useful in case a socket is overloaded, keeping all other sockets alive. Selects based on average load (e.g Socket A pulling 70%, socket B starts pulling 50%, drops B even if A goes 0% for few seconds, needs ~15 seconds to have the remainder power on B socket)
Edit: Btw I'm using domoticz with Lua scripting for custom and complex automation, way trivial than dyi-ng a backend.
(Trying to find some interesting useful scenarios.)
-Weather data as my area doesn't have any proper temperature reporting service online, its always +/-5C and no working weather prediction.
-Water tank level, as you know in Lebanon you have to pay mafias to get water, we've had multiple occurrences where water was very low, not to mention pumping muddy water.
-Power quality when using Private electricity information is useful when diagnosing issues, we mostly use it as a quick look when trying to draw large like a vacuum while having temporary resistance heater on somewhere, not to exceed "ishterak" capacity.
-Solar power logging is obviously needed for adjustments during seasons, knowing how much you saved per month when calculating bills.
-Sick of changing outdoor lights time depending on fog/winter/summer timing and clouds.
-It would be wasteful to replace a generator for a modern HMI. (starting gen, checking temps etc)
-auto recloser in case of accidental overload on ishterak since its around 20 A, our publ-ic electricity is 60A. trips and reset twice, a minute between then opens until manual reset.
-water heater temperature for a simple warning when they're off (ishterak), im switching to heat pump based water heaters soon from Ariston so this feature will be removed. (standard "Azan" is around 1500/2000W, heatpump is around 250W only, also has proper internal insulation, 50c water stays 45-50 for 6 hours)
-Indicator lights are useful for knowing what type of electricity you have, last time I needed to weld something, and we had ~3 power changes in an hour, pretty exhausting to go to the control room each time to check before drawing large loads (3kW and more)
-Selectivity for UPS is obvious, as described. You don't want lighting/PCs/TVs etc to blackout when someone plugs a hairdryer/vaccum in the wrong outlet forgetting to read "UPS" label. (each outlet has a switch to switch between ups and bypass/regular) Even if the UPS can handle it, as each port has a slightly limited current for stabilized total draw.
Edit: I must add that I don't have any "smart" lights anywhere as I don't find them useful, not to mention that they're never future proof.
Most of the sensor modules are compatible with OSS, and the hardware is very common, easy to repair and replaced by a future possible home-stay or any resident temporary or permanent (Selling), when the product goes obsolete by then aswell. I switched from openHAB (industry standard) to Domoticz and never looked back. Switching to LoRa is seamless, as I have the transceivers work as module, even existing integrated wifi/bt hardware are translated)
Very interesting indeed.
Been doing a thorough and conscientious research about automated smart homes , and you gave me good hints / insights.
I am moving to a new apartment soon ( getting married) and I will do it a smart apartment by myself without sourcing any 3rd party / company to do it for me. I am interested in Alexa ,Wink Hub 2 , Brilliant Control ,iHome iSP6X , Ecobee3/4 , SimpliSafe Home Security and smart leds like Philips Hue ( personal preference) in bedroom and living room ( kind of a mini home theater).
I've been thinking about Hue strips for hidden lighting as well when using my UST projector, automated dim/bright with Kodi on play pause, brighter lights when turned off, not to mention they're quality built. (burned through 3 bars in a year)Tech Guru wroteElitism Guru wroteIn chronological order:elserge82 wrote
What are the benefits behind using your new sensors if I may ask?:)
(Trying to find some interesting useful scenarios.)
-Weather data as my area doesn't have any proper temperature reporting service online, its always +/-5C and no working weather prediction.
-Water tank level, as you know in Lebanon you have to pay mafias to get water, we've had multiple occurrences where water was very low, not to mention pumping muddy water.
-Power quality when using Private electricity information is useful when diagnosing issues, we mostly use it as a quick look when trying to draw large like a vacuum while having temporary resistance heater on somewhere, not to exceed "ishterak" capacity.
-Solar power logging is obviously needed for adjustments during seasons, knowing how much you saved per month when calculating bills.
-Sick of changing outdoor lights time depending on fog/winter/summer timing and clouds.
-It would be wasteful to replace a generator for a modern HMI. (starting gen, checking temps etc)
-auto recloser in case of accidental overload on ishterak since its around 20 A, our publ-ic electricity is 60A. trips and reset twice, a minute between then opens until manual reset.
-water heater temperature for a simple warning when they're off (ishterak), im switching to heat pump based water heaters soon from Ariston so this feature will be removed. (standard "Azan" is around 1500/2000W, heatpump is around 250W only, also has proper internal insulation, 50c water stays 45-50 for 6 hours)
-Indicator lights are useful for knowing what type of electricity you have, last time I needed to weld something, and we had ~3 power changes in an hour, pretty exhausting to go to the control room each time to check before drawing large loads (3kW and more)
-Selectivity for UPS is obvious, as described. You don't want lighting/PCs/TVs etc to blackout when someone plugs a hairdryer/vaccum in the wrong outlet forgetting to read "UPS" label. (each outlet has a switch to switch between ups and bypass/regular) Even if the UPS can handle it, as each port has a slightly limited current for stabilized total draw.
Edit: I must add that I don't have any "smart" lights anywhere as I don't find them useful, not to mention that they're never future proof.
Most of the sensor modules are compatible with OSS, and the hardware is very common, easy to repair and replaced by a future possible home-stay or any resident temporary or permanent (Selling), when the product goes obsolete by then aswell. I switched from openHAB (industry standard) to Domoticz and never looked back. Switching to LoRa is seamless, as I have the transceivers work as module, even existing integrated wifi/bt hardware are translated)
Very interesting indeed.
Been doing a thorough and conscientious research about automated smart homes , and you gave me good hints / insights.
I am moving to a new apartment soon ( getting married) and I will do it a smart apartment by myself without sourcing any 3rd party / company to do it for me. I am interested in Alexa ,Wink Hub 2 , Brilliant Control ,iHome iSP6X , Ecobee3/4 , SimpliSafe Home Security and smart leds like Philips Hue ( personal preference) in bedroom and living room ( kind of a mini home theater).
Check out Hubitat instead of Wink, as from what I've read (reddit) they're going obsolete soon (entire product range). Plus Hubitat runs local with cloud sync, as well as scripting (integrating new, old or incompatible sensors)
Hubitat is the way to go if you're gonna be doing it all yourself. It's really powerful and works local, so there is no delay whatsoever.
Ecobee runs on low voltage and we have furnaces and AC that run on 220v. There are alternatives, can't think right now though.
Ecobee runs on low voltage and we have furnaces and AC that run on 220v. There are alternatives, can't think right now though.
6 days later
- Edited
Need help
Question about gang replacement. I tested the US sonoff t1 (1gang) and i'd like to roll it to the other boxes. I don't want to do civil work. How would I replace the 4 gang size? Is there any box adaptor ?
Thank you
Question about gang replacement. I tested the US sonoff t1 (1gang) and i'd like to roll it to the other boxes. I don't want to do civil work. How would I replace the 4 gang size? Is there any box adaptor ?
Thank you
There are adapters that you can get that will make it the standard size box (1-3 gang). You can get them at most electrical stores that sell the fixtures.
I've tested some Sonoff and other Chinese brands, know this. They can disable the device remotely if they wish to do so. I have more than one unit that has been remotely disabled, they just don't power up anymore. Now they don't do this, but they have the ability to do that. You're also relying on their servers entirely for the automation.
I've tested some Sonoff and other Chinese brands, know this. They can disable the device remotely if they wish to do so. I have more than one unit that has been remotely disabled, they just don't power up anymore. Now they don't do this, but they have the ability to do that. You're also relying on their servers entirely for the automation.
elserge82 wroteNeed help
Question about gang replacement. I tested the US sonoff t1 (1gang) and i'd like to roll it to the other boxes. I don't want to do civil work. How would I replace the 4 gang size? Is there any box adaptor ?
Thank you
6 days later
I've checked in several places with no luck . If you have a place in mind to contact, I would be very grateful .beezer wroteThere are adapters that you can get that will make it the standard size box (1-3 gang). You can get them at most electrical stores that sell the fixtures.
I've tested some Sonoff and other Chinese brands, know this. They can disable the device remotely if they wish to do so. I have more than one unit that has been remotely disabled, they just don't power up anymore. Now they don't do this, but they have the ability to do that. You're also relying on their servers entirely for the automation.
elserge82 wroteNeed help
Question about gang replacement. I tested the US sonoff t1 (1gang) and i'd like to roll it to the other boxes. I don't want to do civil work. How would I replace the 4 gang size? Is there any box adaptor ?
Thank you
Thank you
12 days later
I'll take a picture of one next time so you can show it as a reference. I live in the Bekaa and seen it in Zahle.
17 days later
The name of the shop would be find since I have lots of friends from zahlehbeezer wroteI'll take a picture of one next time so you can show it as a reference. I live in the Bekaa and seen it in Zahle.