Home Automation (Z-Wave)

Hello,

I don't know about Z-Wave but I am interested in the subject as well. We were having a bit of fun in the office with some smart stuff so I can be more experienced when I decide to apply EOT in my house.

I don't know how much experience you are in this but I will share the little I know so far:
We have started with Google Home, it is a good place to start with smart devices but you will soon need hubs like the SmartThings hub from Samsung (one from many brands). We ordered Sonoff smart bulb holder from aliexpress, and used eWeLink app & service and they are very professional. Chromecast with Google Home is very useful and fun but it will not do everything on your TV.

My main objective is to have an entry level smart home with an online dashboard but most importantly is to have it voice activated, and Google Home is more than great in this and so make sure to purchase it ASAP.
Items that I will purchase as soon as I get my life a bit organised:
Smart AC, smart electric curtains (requires motor, pole, tracks), bulb holders, hot water temperature, house energy monitor, house temperature and humidity (inside & outside), water level indicator, smart coffee maker ... Android pay will be super cool to order food online via voice commands but they still do not offer this in Lebanon.

Please bear in mind that in order to cover your entire house you need a really big budget so be happy to start a bit by bit. Making all your curtains electric and smart is not cheap so start in the sitting room if you are on a moderate budget and I advise you to account for the electric curtains (place for the motor and an internal path for the wiring) while in the construction phase.

Please keep us posted and share your future experience.

These guys have Z-wave products and installation:
http://www.softnet.me/Products.aspx

I was really into this subject two years ago and even went to China to see some factories and suppliers to see if I could develop a brand of my own.

z-wave is a good option and works well for large homes (Arab style) where each device can act as a repeater for another, anyways, you've read all about that probably.

To answer your question, there was only one real company that I was looking at when I went to China, they were the goal that I had in mind in creating a new product and they had distributors and showroom here (according to their website)
https://www.fibaro.com/en/where-to-buy/

Beware they are expensive and I've read mixed reviews about their products two years ago, so they could possibly have fixed all their bugs.

What about fiber?
About home automation, I know Xiaomi have some affordable solutions. Their app is not that great though. That's all I know!

Reviving an old thread here instead of creating a new one. Does anyone have any leads to companies that are doing home automation in Lebanon?

I've been doing it as a side job lately in my area and am contemplating getting a big order of products and going all in on it (having a store front with showroom), but want to see what my competition is. So far the competition is Fibaro and KNX systems which are at least 3x as much as me.

Any help on leads that you know about would be appreciated. Or if you've seen some marketing for some. Everything I've found online has shown me companies that are not really into it, from their online presence at least.

Hello Beezer, search for “IBS automation sarl” on facebook, never delt with them but i am following their page, looks like a professional company to me, best of luck.

I sent you a PM BTW.

Home automation is a headache... I've been integrating since 15 months almost everything in my apartment and the main problem was LAN cabling.

No matter what you read, DO NOT, and i mean it, DO NOT go wireless.

beezer wroteThis is the first time time I've read something about not going wireless. Can you tell me your experience? Zigbee and WiFi seem to come up a lot with what I've been reading. Zwave seems to be region specific and gives headaches pairing in the beginning

I've been running a door sensor, 3 light switches, an outlet, and 2 motion sensors for over a week now in the same room. As well as a thermostat in another area. The lights are triggered by any of those sensors.

Not having any problems so far, I'm just wondering how this would scale on an entire house level. Now you're freaking me out.

Kareem wroteNo matter what you read, DO NOT, and i mean it, DO NOT go wireless.

I demo'ed products from many vendors and this is my own interpretation. Wireless is not reliable.

You just said it yourself; it's a couple of light switches and sensors. Nothing major. I wouldn't call it automation, not even smart unless IR sensors and remote controls are.

Once you start real integration ( Automation processor, Screens, GUIs, shades control, dimming circuits, AV processing ) you will find that latency is very annoying, even if you're not really streaming whatsoever, it takes around 1 second ( sometimes more ) to turn on the lights.

If you can live with that it's fine but I'd rather have something as quick as the traditional light switch.

Not to mention that it's almost never a good idea to have anything on WiFi for security reasons ( private ethernet network is ideally the best option )

beezer wroteSo I've set up automation this way.
Batch 1:
I reach my house, the 3 lights turn on, each, one second after the other (I put the timer there cause it looks cool). This happens immediately as I reach the geolocation.

Batch 2:
I'm home and I enter the room, the motion sensor senses movement and turns the lights on, it does take a second at maximum, but that's because I'm using a battery operated sensor, I'm getting a powered sensor to test with now.

Batch 3:
I open the door to the room if it's not open, immediately the room lights up. There is no delay with this sensor, hence why I'm trying a different motion one.

Batch 4:
I leave the geofence area, the lights turn off immediately once I leave.

I do not have curtain control because it costs a bit more right now and I'm trying to master what I have in my hands. I do not have IR blaster, but am finalizing the technical requirement for one as I've played with them before and know what I need.

Dimmers, I cannot find any WiFi LED dimmers that won't destroy the light after a while. So I've given that up for now. Dimmer control needs to have the right spec to make the LED lights last.

Aside from that, I find it to run really well and fast when I take over and do things by pressing the buttons on the phone. I am trying to find negatives before I really start to market this thing because I will be putting some cash into it. Any more thoughts are appreciated greatly! Maybe give me a hypothetical scenario to program and see how it goes? I am wondering how this would work out if 3 rooms are activated at the same time, say kids enter one room, lights should turn on, at the same time I enter my home office, lights should turn on, my wife leaves the tv room, the lights should turn off. Will that add lag or just make the system fail?

I'll be installing 3 other actuators for lights switches and 2 other motion sensors and one door sensor soon and give that a try. I believe that will be an example of a medium scale system (apartment/villa), what do you think? Seems you have more experience than me in this field.

Kareem wroteYou just said it yourself; it's a couple of light switches and sensors. Nothing major. I wouldn't call it automation, not even smart unless IR sensors and remote controls are.

Once you start real integration ( Automation processor, Screens, GUIs, shades control, dimming circuits, AV processing ) you will find that latency is very annoying, even if you're not really streaming whatsoever, it takes around 1 second ( sometimes more ) to turn on the lights.

Before I go deeper into this, let's agree on one thing. Whatever you're trying to accomplish is far from " Home Automation".

As far as I understand, what you're doing is turning "dumb" circuits into a something automated with the ability to control it remotely. But then again, this is not what home automation is for.

It's more like creating a single network where all devices are connected together and to a single control point; You create endless scenarios and possibilities depending on what you really need and want.

Say It's 5:00 PM , the sunset -> Open shades -> turn on lights A,B,C -> Reduce A/C fan speed - > blabla

It's 8 in the morning, Shades do X , TV turns on , Music is played somewhere in the house, water heater / boiler on for a shower.

Electricity goes off, generator on -> maintain a max 19.5A ( depending on what you're allowed to have ) drawing current by controlling dimming lights, A/C units, turning off unnecessary appliances...

It's also the ability to control everything from outside. Basically you can do almost anything.

For Lights and dimming, I went with Tridonic leds and drivers ( 0-10V dimmers ).

For HVAC control if you can get a CoolMasterNet unit it's a piece of art.

For Shades you just need to install somfy motors and depending on which model you get there's a control unit you can install.

If you see the pic below, this is part of what I had to install to get part of what I want. Programming is very complicated.

It only includes lights ( direct / indirect ), shades control and Processor.

The Iot (internet of things) industry has really taken off in the last couple of years. I have some experience in that field as i equiped my house 2 years ago with home automation. There is now way more cost effective and easier methods to do home automation with more functionalities. Like linking it to Google home, amazon echo and some cool platforms like iftt. I am sure you are well aware of that as i see you are passionate about it. As for the argument don't go wireless i don't find it valid because if a house is equipped with a mesh wifi system and a reliable internet connection all should be fine. I would highly recommend considering the new alternative if you want to invest in this market.

bobo619 wrote There is now way more cost effective and easier methods to do home automation with more functionalities. Like linking it to Google home, amazon echo and some cool platforms like iftt. I am sure you are well aware of that as i see you are passionate about it. As for the argument don't go wireless i don't find it valid because if a house is equipped with a mesh wifi system and a reliable internet connection all should be fine. I would highly recommend considering the new alternative if you want to invest in this market.

The way I see it :


Easier to install --> less secure

Cheaper --> more complicated to use

There's a reason why a complete " home automation " would cost anything between $2K up to $150k....

I've had many cheaper alternatives like KNX , Zigbee,Z-wave, Samsung smartthings etc... before pulling the trigger on a Crestron system and here's why

1 - They're in the business since the beginning of home automation and they are one of the most reliable; top reputation.

2- They offer a complete portfolio or solution to all your needs.

3- Although proprietary protocol, it's an echo system just like Apple. They can also be integrated with some KNX products

4- Support and Warranty


The major players in the home automation industry are 4 : Crestron, Control4, Savant and Lutron for lighting probably.

-------------------------------------------

The cheaper alternative can't do AV processing and distribution, end of story.

Of course you can do multi-room Audio with Sonos or Airplay2 devices but just like Amazon echo, these are complementary, They are integrated natively in your home automation system.

Amazon Echo will help you control your HA instead of using the remote control or phone; it's far from being part of the automation.

My final interpretation is that anything that doesn't involve programming for integration and one control point ( One app / one remote control ) for everything IMO is not home automation.

Regarding last statement, IF I really have to go wireless, the last thing I need is deploying a mesh wifi system ( Orbi, AmplifiHD,Google etc..).

AP with ethernet backhaul is the way to go. You will never beat even a decent wired AP system with any kind of mesh, even the attempts at tri-radio solutions. RF spectrum is a finite resource, and if you use one big chunk, it's less for everything else so I went for Ubiquity APs.

I wasn't happy when I had to do all the rewiring but unless you're going for the simple smart things, I wouldn't connect every wireless device, do AV steaming, video surveillance and download while controlling my apartment on single wireless connection.

And for the cherry on top, If for any reason you have to reboot your router, everything is down.

Last but not least, you won't really experience what I'm trying to elaborate until you really expand your integration while trying to cover the whole apartment.

You were pointing me in one direction and then you lost me when you said it's not automation.

Your example:
Say It's 5:00 PM , the sunset -> Open shades -> turn on lights A,B,C -> Reduce A/C fan speed - > blabla

Okay, maybe I'm missing something but I feel I'm achieving the same thing when I enter a geolocation and it is tied down to work only between sunset to sunrise. It may be inferior products but it does achieve the same result.

The CoolMasterNet system kind of helped me understand what you're trying to say, it's all on one system. But I'm still able to do the same controls through an IR blaster since all split A/C units are controlled that way. That same blaster will help me control the AV equipment. And the devices all do talk to each other, they check each others status before performing an action. Motion detector triggers the lights if they're not on.

I think you are more focused on streaming, but I don't understand how home automation works with streaming aside from say "movie time", lights off, projector screen down, AV system on. What part of the home automation system will handle streaming or video surveillance? Or am I mixing things up? The cheaper alternative can't do AV processing and distribution. Help me understand.

Amazon Echo helps control the automation but Alexa also has Skills & Routines that help do the automation just like IFTTT.

I have 3 access points in my house and they are all connected by cables. Most of the equipment connects ZigBee or 2.4ghz while the 5ghz is for my Echo/FireTV/Xbox so I really don't see any congestion impact.

I looked at KNX and read a about it, and you're telling me what you're installing is superior to that. When I read about KNX, almost every single thing said that this is for commercial usage and for large scale things like business complexes or hotels and was complete overkill for a home. Just didn't make sense after reading that to have to install a couple of breakers and an entire panel, oh and do all this expensive cabling in the house for home automation, it makes me feel like the old days when you needed a huge room for a computer to do simple calculations. And now we have calculators.

When I think AV processing I think things like Plex server which isn't what you're thinking or trying to achieve.

Alright it's like 3 in the morning and I'm a bit sleepy but it's an interesting conversation. Let me tell you where's the real difference because it's getting more complicated.

First, we should agree that KNX is not a product or solution, it's a protocol and it was done specifically for residential home automation with the option to expand. It's more like an open source OS compared to a proprietary one such as Crestron or Control4 and yes Crestron is, according to every review specialized in HA far superior but that's not the point of the debate.

IMO, Home Automation is not only controlling A,B and C. It's about entertainment as well and that's why the AV solution is very expensive, because you can't achieve it with entry level products.

When I talk about AV processing and streaming, I'm not talking about Plex. I'm talking about 4K HDMI switchers and multiplexers.
I am also talking about multi-channel - multi-room Amplifiers.

Every room has it's own Audio and Video channel. Say you're in the living room watching football, you tell Alexa to switch output to bedroom 1 or you do it from your phone or Crestron remote control.

You can also tell Alexa to turn on the A/C in Bedroom 1 before you join. The audio signal of the channel you're watching is redirected to the speakers in the room you wish to sit.

Say you're playing on spotify, Deezer or Tidal, you can play the music in each and every room or you can airplay / cast from your mobile to the AV processor and get the output anywhere in your house through ceiling / wall speakers etc..

The whole idea behind it is a clean setup. No need for Sat receiver/ Blu-R player etc.. in every room. There's a centralized solution say in a server closet that's handling everything.

In my situation, the AV Processor is connected to two CableVision receivers, Nvidia shield and one BR player; the multi-room amp is connected to an Airplay2 receiver, Bluesound node2i for music streaming and internet radio / FM tuner.

The Video signal is transmitted through Cat6a cables so no need for coaxial cables.

As for the video surveillance, the camera is communicating with the HA through RTSP so the HA app or screens can access the live or recorded sessions, can do whichever scenario you want when detecting motions ( inside or outside ) etc...

I got myself this which is a bit overkill but IMO totally worth the money as it's a replacement for NVR, NAS and server. It's a Ubiquity Xeon server running Ubuntu, it does 4K trans-coding when necessary and has 12 TB of RAID1 storage. Mostly FLAC music and Ripped DVDs

It also has the wireless controller that manages the access points to minimize/eliminate the hand-off.






To Sum it up... if you can give me a product or solution that does :

-Centralized automation using one control point
-Clean integration and simple interface
-Endless customization
-AV processing
-Reliable Direct and indirect lighting control for led lights including dimming
-Complete HVAC control
-Software upgrade and support

i'll be glad to switch tomorrow. People are not stupid to spend thousands if there was the same for less. And no I don't think your argument about the computer room is valid. It's more like comparing an iPhone to a Chinese replica where you need to look for any app you want on the internet so you can download and install it. It's more like DIY vs ready to go.

BTW, KNX is really good and it was a 2nd option but for an all-in-one, I went with Crestron. More expensive but less headache.

Below is a nice article comparing different solutions for lighting only, note that Lutron are pioneer in this field, and that's just lighting :

https://www.customcontrols.co.uk/blog/lutron-lighting-vs-knx-vs-zwaverf/