LebGeeks

Ayman

Member

Certifications....How much are they helpful?

I was considering lately sitting for certification exams such the SCJP(Sun Certified Java Programmer) and an Oracle certification too, do you think certifications are helpful when it comes to job admissions? Is it worth the time and money? Some people say it is useless(experience is much better) and others say that it is very important, what do you think? Thanks for your opinion :)

teodorgeorgiev

Member

Re: Certifications....How much are they helpful?

Nowadays Oracle and SUN certifications are really worth more than the Cisco ones. A fact.

Outside Lebanon an Oracle cert will pay back its money really well.

mir

Member

Re: Certifications....How much are they helpful?

I measure it by how useful it would be for me in my daily life, otherwise, i don't bother
would it make my life easier, if i do this, what do i learn.. what are the topics that i will become expert in ?

does this cert give real life intro into things.
If you rely on experience alone, you have to learn the hard way
if u have the cert, somehow u have general idea about all the tools that could be used to do a specific task at ur work and you can deep dive into one of the tools.. this is where experience comes in.

and certs are easy way.. some teacher is telling you all the stuff  why should u go figure out most of this by yourself and you probably get to ask the tricky questions and get the reply fast

for me, a cert doesn't mean much... someone without certs or uni degree even can be way better than those dudes who just do the study only part. but it is only me
if u are on the job hunt, ppl will feel more secure employing you... than someone with no certs no matter how good they are
cuz the HR will feel secure and more sure about decision since they have the proof for themselves and their management that you are good aka certified

the trick is to decide on what certs to do ... and how much you pay and your "return of investment" .. cuz it is

Last edited by mir (June 5 2009)

battikh

Member

Re: Certifications....How much are they helpful?

for job hunts, many people are on the market. everyone has a university degree, everyone has experience, everyone did this and that. you need tings to get an edge over others, and certs often do the job. they also affect the salary, at least, for cisco ones, but i guess it can be the same for other certs.

mir

Member

Re: Certifications....How much are they helpful?

well.. for the job hunt... u don't need a cert cuz lot of ppl are having certs as well since lot of unis are offering cisco certs and courses for students for free

for the job hunt u need different approach and tactics :)
so if u want to get a job... u should finish :
regular uni - masters/phd degree - basic certs - additional certs that give edge - free trainings that you should do -  that would take at least 7 years after high school... ur first job will be at age of 28 or something
like that  if u decided to go for a regular 4 years regular uni degree , some degrees require like 6 or 7 basic years

Calculate the cost if u are doing it in private uni and paying all those certs centers for courses and exams
ma bitwafeh

Last edited by mir (June 5 2009)

xterm

Moderator

Re: Certifications....How much are they helpful?

SCJP, SCJD didnt do much to me.

BashLogic

Member

Re: Certifications....How much are they helpful?

certifications are a verification of comprehension and ability. it gains you merrit when used for a job hunt but then when you are working, you need to have experience as the certifications do not cover the hands on experience of direct and indirect knowledge.

two days ago we had an incident at work, i went to breath down the neck of the other guys as what has gone wrong and how is it possible that such a thing happened! i was ready to do some karate ninja chop chop moves but then they brought a third guy to address the issue, ironically i know the history of the guy but kept quiet. he was a new recruit with dozens of certifications in his field enough to gover his own apartements house and his family's. as i brought up as what is in question (repetition, I hate that) the guy began asking very very basic questions, my job dropped in disbelief i was just about to start verbally bashing his idiocy and incompitancy but luckily prior to that the veins on my temples began thrubing and i calmed myself down before jumping on his throat!!

lesson learned is that its the one who recruited him who needs to be bashed for being so dazling himself with all the certifications of this guy.

another story is one that i bumped into everytime i have to be in contact with indians... what is happening in india is that many are faking the exams where two guys look alike, the first pays the other who is certified to go and do the ceritification under the others name. this way the incompitent one gets the ceritification and nice job, and i have to wish that i had telekentic abilities so that i could bash the crap of those guys from across the globe. i had an issue which was simple to resolve but it took such guys two months and several meetings before it was resolved. i guess the used that period of time to hunt down the compitent one and ask him to answer the question with confidence. not to mention that when i hear indians speaking IT english i start to freak out.. several times ive requested them not to call but to email because i cant make heads or tails of what they try to say and i am really fed up with the "thank you for calling, goodbye" that could easily last 10min with them. a time spent convincing them that you do not require any further assistance...

teodorgeorgiev

Member

Re: Certifications....How much are they helpful?

SCJP, SCJD didnt do much to me.

in Leb?

xterm

Moderator

Re: Certifications....How much are they helpful?

SCJP, SCJD didnt do much to me.

in Leb?

I got both in 2001. During that time Java was unknown to most of the corporations that deal with business applications. Most of the frameworks and application servers were very tedious to implement on, deploy and administer. Thus employers shy'ed away from actually using java and so having those certs on my CV were easily ignored in lebanon. Today, its different, but then again my interest in "programming" is different as well, I prefer to work with something interesting and today that's WPF and Silverlight(WPF/E).

Back to the topic, people have already said everything there is to say concerning certifications. What "I" feel about certifications is mainly something for you and only you. It just tells YOU that you're familiar with the technology at hand.

Ayman, if you plan on doing scjp, i'm compelled to tell you that its not an easy exam. "Knowing" java is not enough, you seriously need to know the INs and OUTs of the core api and the jvm itself. They give you trick questions. Make sure that you aquire examination booklets and do mock exams before taking the real test.

P.S.: If i ever get some time, perhaps i'll continue the cert track up to SCJA, i always wanted that, sadly right now there's a bunch of certs you need before SCJA.

Ayman

Member

Re: Certifications....How much are they helpful?

You mean it is concentrated on testing your API knowledge more than on testing your actual problem solving and programming skills...
btw isnt SCJA the first one that you have to take to climb the ladder of Java certifications? here is a schema:

btw, if you know where i can get Java certification books in Lebanon please tell me, and please tell me where i could apply for taking the exams, thanks very much for your help everyone :)

Last edited by Ayman (June 7 2009)

xterm

Moderator

Re: Certifications....How much are they helpful?

Whoops! My bad, back in 2001, there were only 4 certificates (or was it 3?).

P: Programmer
D: Developer
A: Architect

Apparently its Enterprise Architect now Java Architect.

I got my P book from Librarie Antoine Sin el Fil, didnt get any book for D as it really didn't require any (mind you, D is not simulated like P).

Concerning the exam, you really should check what they are focusing on. I'm pretty sure its not about "Problem Solving" rather the understanding of the Core API and the compiler/interpreter itself. They also ask you some very tricky questions which 99% of the applicants fail to answer due to information falsly provided in colleges and the internet.

for example: class A { private int p;} is it possible to access p from an instance of A in any scope ?

another example: Is Java "Pass by Value" or "Pass by Reference" or "None of the above" ?

Effectively the time you get is way more than enough to complete the P exam, granted you know the language. Books help you tremendously but make sure you don't get an old booklet, version must be correct!

Good luck.

Last edited by xterm (June 8 2009)

Ayman

Member

Re: Certifications....How much are they helpful?

I see... Thanks very much xterm for the help and the info, good luck to you too in your next certifications that you may be planning to sit for :)