LebGeeks

Sadus

Member

so all the fuss for nothing?

smalla smalla.

a new dedicated section for Linux and all i see is what i see is basicaly nothing.
Come on people, stop clicking your daily "next" -> "next" -> "next" -> "finish" and use your brains.

Charly

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

well, we need experts like u or any linuxer to start tutoring us about important and essential linux stuff..... or maybe not teach us, but post something u think is important for us to know abt linux

samer

Admin

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

exactly, we need experienced linux users to post some tutorials ect..

Ragnar78

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

you have all the possible linux info on the net. the real question you should ask is: do you need linux?

Yes it is cool to type lines in a console instead of double clicking, learning new security methods (like going into root to install apps and then leaving it to stop possible maliscious codes from executing...)

Now if its specially for security, well the first viruses were implemented on unix based systems...no matter how good an operating system is, its not flawless and actually, linux might be more dangerous than windows cause the source code is out their, even if it is improved it still has flaws (apache servers were hacked and are still being hacked...)

So if you want linux just for the fun of it or for the security, its worthless.
If you want it cause you need it, then its perfect.
Actually i was just wondering if anyone knows trully how windows work before changing to linux...

Sadus

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

I'm no Linux expert, i'm just a Linux expert wanabe.

Ragnar,
If you think that Linux (or any BSD distro) is all about some lines in console,  if you think that one of the major security features in Linux is "root", if you think that "root" will stop malicous codes frome executing, recollect again.

the main idea which i think should be pointed is "the alternative".
You buy a computer, and guess what's installed in it? (bam bam bam)

WINDOWS!!

to match your reason, this is worse than Syria invading Lebanon, no freedom in choosing whatsover.

anyhow, Linux built the Internet, Linux run the most advanced computing tasks, from Earthquake simulations, to tough clustering jobs to robust networking services. (yes it can also perform MSN messenger).

I was introduced to Linux because i really got bored of not undestanding what was going on! It is not prescribed to understand how Windows works, that's Microsoft's policy (blakh).

The source code is a reassurance not an insecurity, because anyone can read the source before running the application, therfore, can also edit, calibrate and improve the software. That's what's behind the countless open source communities that aim to improve computer software.

If you're satisfied with what you have, fine, but don't endorse the monopoly that, us computer fanatics, are fighting.

Ragnar78

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

If you think that Linux (or any BSD distro) is all about some lines in console, if you think that one of the major security features in Linux is "root", if you think that "root" will stop malicous codes frome executing, recollect again

This is what i said :
Yes it is cool to type lines in a console instead of double clicking, learning new security methods (like going into root to install apps and then leaving it to stop possible maliscious codes from executing...)

The source code is a reassurance not an insecurity, because anyone can read the source before running the application, therfore, can also edit, calibrate and improve the software. That's what's behind the countless open source communities that aim to improve computer software.

As for the code...well honnestly i guess the 99% of people who are willing to check the code to see if it has flaws won't do it cause they dont know how to program

And I'm not supporting Microsoft's monopolistic strategy

The last and most important part is abut freedom: no one said it wouldn't be good to have other alternatives, but nowadays, time is essential and a lot of people dont have the time or  the will to go Linux. Time today is for productivity, and as a normal pc user do you actualy need an operating system that can support Earthquake emulations, or robust clustering?
well i think its obvious the answer is no...and the key word is NEED...so to talk of alternative you have to be able to put linux and windows on the same level...
windows sucks big time, no arguing about that, even with their SP2 they are being buttfucked with worms...but still. The only problem of windows is the monopoly not the system itself no matter how week it is compared to linux: for me the price of Windows XP pro 35$ + 10$ for online support...Win Server 2003: 150$...Win Me: they should pay me money just to install it and remove it quickly...

Sadus

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

you guess that only 99% of the Linux users read the codes?
If that was true, how come a big big part of the Linux community has been somehow envolved in the development of the Linux kernel, applications or at least contributed by just submiting a bug to the concerned party? Let me remind you that most of the applications made on Linux are developed by people like me and you,

Your argument isn't accurate when it comes to time. I know that from experience. Once you know how to sysadmin your Linux box, it can be WAY faster to debug Linux than Windows. Like for example now, i'm installing Bind9 on my box in the states, and registrars won't recognize it as a DNS server, why? because i simply don't know how to run Bind, so first thing i'm gonna do is understand the mechanism behind name resolving and how Bind implements it., of course by reading.

Yes, its quite important to know that the OS you work on can do big ass computing tasks, at least it can open some opportunities if you know how to get advantage of your system. You can be that Mr Simulator Creator.

The main point is, when you work on Linux, you really know how things work. you learn new stuff everyday, and not stuff like: if you click Ctrl+Enter on the browser: www & .com will appear automaticaly!! YEY!!!!

yalla, gotta [sadus@box sadus]$ shutdown -r now

Ragnar78

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

Well my point concerning time is quiet accurate. PC users are not all network administrators...what they want is Office worksuites to work, play games and stuff. As i said, if you want linux installed you must be needing it.

Anyway, i'll go back to my start>turn off computer>restart cause it's bugging, since i still can't program the open office DB, so i have to stick to access and Windows.

Sadus

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

very true, but i'm not bouncing off what normal users want, for the simple reason that in reality they don't know what they want, they just use what's available (which i think is a type of restriction), and that's what i was trying to change by stating "the alternative choice".

See the compulsion? you don't have to stick to MS Access, use Open Sourced MySQL for countless reasons ;), just kidding after all, i support "choice" :

rolf

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

Dude, somebody asked the question: do you need linux.
Well, obiously, if you're asking the question, then the answer is NO!
The only interest in using linux are experimentation and customisation. You can completely rewrite the whole OS to turn it into whatever you want. But that's not at the reach of everyone.

On the other hand dont be afraid to try linux for a change, (try Fedora Linux) it is as easy to install as windows and the GUI looks great. But keep Windows!

rolf

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

Actually i was just wondering if anyone knows trully how windows work before changing to linux...

You can hack into windows, there are books for it . I have a book called "inside windows 2000" to be frank I understood next to nothing of it. It is a book that explains the functionning of the windows kernel.
It seems that the windows NT/2000 kernel is a work of art. You may notice that it never crashes, only the user interface does.
But where there is the big mess in windows is explorer (the file explorer) and internet explorer

megalomania

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

I know this is an old thread, but in reply to the "do you need linux" question, I wrote something on the LEGLUG website which kinda answers this.

<shameless plug>
please read: http://leglug.org/node/Why%20Linux%3F
</shameless plug>

mezin

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

Ragnar pointed out something really importanat... linux is almost pointless... however i disagre with the rest of his first post... an operating system sucks by comparison ... and i f you compare windows to linux there's not doubt which of the two gets the cake ... and the only reason windows is infested with worms and viruses is that it is the MOST used operating system and is the logical target for hackers and spammers .... much like the deal with firefox and IE

the main idea which i think should be pointed is "the alternative".
You buy a computer, and guess what's installed in it? (bam bam bam)

WINDOWS!!

hahaha that's only in lebanon, and  it is most probably a pirated copy so what's bothering you ? you didn't pay for it or anything  ?

Sadus

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

that's not ONLY in Lebanon. Most of the main computer dealers deal with Windows and give you a bundled copy when you buy a new computer.

and no need to change your opinion, 2 mns ago you wrote: RAGNAR is 100% right, Linux is nothing compared to Windows.

rolf

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

Linux is open code. You can take linux and turn it into whatever you want it to be, given of course enough time!

That's how comupting was meant to be, IMO.
I just wish the source code was easyer to read and understand.

But even without the source code tinkering, the linux system itslelf, with its countless and well documented command line programs and it scripts is incredibly flexible... again that's if you have enough time!

Another great thing, is that something goes wrong on linux, you can dig down to the problem and fix it. If you're on windows, forget it. There are ways to debug a windows system, but it's FAR less admin friendly, and you're limited in the documentation you get.

mezin

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

and no need to change your opinion, 2 mns ago you wrote: RAGNAR is 100% right, Linux is nothing compared to Windows.

I did not change my opinion .. i misread what ragnar said .. in the latter part of his post he then turned to insult windows ....

and anyway bundled software are optionla promotional services so you are free to take it or not...

Linux is open code. You can take linux and turn it into whatever you want it to be, given of course enough time!

That's how comupting was meant to be, IMO.
I just wish the source code was easyer to read and understand.

But even without the source code tinkering, the linux system itslelf, with its countless and well documented command line programs and it scripts is incredibly flexible... again that's if you have enough time!

Another great thing, is that something goes wrong on linux, you can dig down to the problem and fix it. If you're on windows, forget it. There are ways to debug a windows system, but it's FAR less admin friendly, and you're limited in the documentation you get.

well what you said is 100% true BUT it's not what I am searching for... I'm searching for an OPERATING SYSTEM that is user friendly and organized backed up by a powerful consumer service

so the next time baddak twajje3 rassak and try to create something to feel more comfortable (and waste your time) go to linux .

or you can have a perfect (relatively) system that is constantly updated by a few clicks that runs most(if not all) programs and applications.

the choice is your you take it ... don't take the choice for others

megalomania

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

so the next time baddak twajje3 rassak and try to create something to feel more comfortable (and waste your time) go to linux .

or you can have a perfect (relatively) system that is constantly updated by a few clicks that runs most(if not all) programs and applications.

ermm... completely true from a user point of view.
But this website is called lebgeeks, and last time I checked, computer geeks weren't users

This is important for the sake of this discussion;

If you're a geek, then what you're saying <quote>[...] twajje3 rassak [...] to create something [...] and waste your time</quote> is offbase.

On the other hand, if you're a user, then it's true that linux is probably not for you because it's a hassle to setup and maintain.

but then again, I don't think that users should maintain their computers anyway.

rolf

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

He does raise a worthy point though: some people are lured into installing linux by all the smooth talk and the hype, only to end up loosing their precious time.
I often see people on the net praising linux, making it sound as if it is superior to Windows. Personally, I always try to mention both the positive and negative aspects of the system when I talk about it.

I dont think linux is a competitor to windows yet, it's more of a complement.
Some users obstinately try to defend linux as an altrenative to windows by using lame arguments such as "you're not affected by viruses", and "you wont get spyware". Just get Windows and install an antivirus and antispyware.

mezin

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

I dont think linux is a competitor to windows yet, it's more of a complement.Some users obstinately try to defend linux as an altrenative to windows by using lame arguments such as "you're not affected by viruses", and "you wont get spyware". Just get Windows and install an antivirus and antispyware.

exactly !!!! :)

ermm... completely true from a user point of view.
But this website is called lebgeeks, and last time I checked, computer geeks weren't users

This is important for the sake of this discussion;

If you're a geek, then what you're saying <quote>[...] twajje3 rassak [...] to create something [...] and waste your time</quote> is offbase.

On the other hand, if you're a user, then it's true that linux is probably not for you because it's a hassle to setup and maintain.

but then again, I don't think that users should maintain their computers anyway.

may i ask what OS you are running ?

megalomania

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

may i ask what OS you are running ?

I'm not a zealot, so I use whatever is good for the task at hand.

So on my desktop there's always Debian running; because a dual display is way smarter on linux than on windows, and because I can accomplish more tasks on linux than on windows. (I use a minimalistic window manager, so it gets completely out of my way, so I can do more things simultaneously than I can imagine on windows)

My laptop dual boots between Debian and WindowsXp Pro, which is used to run Photoshop (no matter how many arguments I hear for TheGimp, I still find Photoshop more suitable to my needs) and Macromedia Flash (cause I'm a Flash developer too)

So for me, Windows is used to run applications, while Linux is used to do actual work.

As I said earlier.. err.. somewhere; I don't push people to using linux, I just think it works for me, and when people want to argue, I will defend my point of view.

But I think that people who blindly argue for Windows are as bad as the people who argue for Linux. The argument shouldn't be "which one is better." It should be "There's Windows, and there's Linux, choose which one you want."

Sadus

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

I dont think linux is a competitor to windows yet, it's more of a complement.
Some users obstinately try to defend linux as an altrenative to windows by using lame arguments such as "you're not affected by viruses", and "you wont get spyware". Just get Windows and install an antivirus and antispyware.

that argument really reflects what type of computer user you are. No need to continue the thread.

rolf

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

Hey sadus I kind of feel offended here. Am I not worth talking to?
At the end it's also a matter of habit...

Sadus

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

lets just say i read many of your conversations in the Internet, Networking & Security section, which still proove my point.

have a good day,

rico

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

Linux Rocks :> that's it ! i've been a windows user since a long time ago ! but now me is using linux, i may be not a pro, but turning to linux is something that i don't regret !

rico

Member

Re: so all the fuss for nothing?

and yea one more thing .. we dont do <a href="http://www.ntk.net/ballmer/mirrors.html"> this </a>