LebGeeks

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

@H.S

OLED Technology on 4K is pretty expensive  , yes it has deep saturation especially blacks but the price is not justifiable and it will not drop soon,  and to me yes 4K  worth it , gaming for 4Ks is very near 2016-2017 , and you can do it now using 908Ti in SLI or Fury X/Fury in Cross Fire , the trick is a local  showroom here (they have wide varieties) , set a specific technical questions (or clarification you are skeptical about):

- Does it Include HDMI 2.0 ?
- What is the Real Panel Refresh  Rate?
- What is the Input Lag?
- Up-scaling Method / Technology?

If you are a serious buyer the room manager will sure answer these specific technical question , and not marketing inflated illustration. Lock on a specific model according to your budget vs performance , technical knowledge , design. Go home re-cross-check (users review, you tube ,  product website , product manual, blogs, forums , & searches). Make your mind , and no regrets in my investment in the LG LED UHD 55" 55UB830T. A Positive ROI.

I tried to ask these questions many times but I never got a salesman knowing what it even input lag mean, so I ask sometimes ''a la Libanaise'' like ''is it fluid enough for games?'' Even so the typical answer is: ''all new LED +100hz are very good for games'' ;)

@ HS thanks! So no regrets about this Sony?
I will wait till next week for the Christmas offers catalog for both Sony and LG, last year they released the Sony catalog pretty late like 17th December! I think LG catalog was out by 5-8th December. I am not expecting a superb offer as samsung and sony are releasing their 4K and Android TVs much more expensive because of (stupidly) added gift like PS3 and tablets, they should give us the choice then the samsung UHD would cost 650$ instead of 800$, but nooo you have to pay an extra 150$ for a stupid tablet that you don't want.
Because of that I will take a FHD like the W600.
The LG FHD TVs are worse than Sony in terms of motion blur, rtings even consider the LF550 not playable for video games. Samsung TVs are better but I am still afraid panels will burn like toasts as they have zero protection and they use 80s slim power cable without Ground

H.S

Member

Re: Televisions war!

@H.S

OLED Technology on 4K is pretty expensive  , yes it has deep saturation especially blacks but the price is not justifiable and it will not drop soon,  and to me yes 4K  worth it , gaming for 4Ks is very near 2016-2017 , and you can do it now using 908Ti in SLI or Fury X/Fury in Cross Fire , the trick is a local  showroom here (they have wide varieties) , set a specific technical questions (or clarification you are skeptical about):

- Does it Include HDMI 2.0 ?
- What is the Real Panel Refresh  Rate?
- What is the Input Lag?
- Up-scaling Method / Technology?

If you are a serious buyer the room manager will sure answer these specific technical question , and not marketing inflated illustration. Lock on a specific model according to your budget vs performance , technical knowledge , design. Go home re-cross-check (users review, you tube ,  product website , product manual, blogs, forums , & searches). Make your mind , and no regrets in my investment in the LG LED UHD 55" 55UB830T. A Positive ROI.

I am not a PC gamer, most of the exclusives that I want to play are on consoles. Most developers are focusing on consoles which are 1080P, a lot of the PC ports are badly done and you will have a better version running on the weaker/cheaper consoles. Surely some 4K games look impressive on the PC but they're scarce to begin with. Is there enough content to get a beefy rig and a decent 4K TV? probably if you're a hardcore PC gamer.

I usually do the research myself and ask about the availability of a specific model, salesmen in Lebanon don't know about the technical stuff, or maybe I haven't met someone who does. Also the majority of the consumers don't know about it, they just request to see a movie running on the TV and they'll buy it if they like the picture and colors. I used to ask about the input lag and the motion blur...etc, they had no idea what I was talking about, so I stopped asking.

A well done OLED can easily beat any 4K LED, even though there is still a lot of room for the technology to improve. Panasonic recently bought OLED panels from LG and made their own CZ950 which surpassed LG's.

I tried to ask these questions many times but I never got a salesman knowing what it even input lag mean, so I ask sometimes ''a la Libanaise'' like ''is it fluid enough for games?'' Even so the typical answer is: ''all new LED +100hz are very good for games'' ;)

@ HS thanks! So no regrets about this Sony?
I will wait till next week for the Christmas offers catalog for both Sony and LG, last year they released the Sony catalog pretty late like 17th December! I think LG catalog was out by 5-8th December. I am not expecting a superb offer as samsung and sony are releasing their 4K and Android TVs much more expensive because of (stupidly) added gift like PS3 and tablets, they should give us the choice then the samsung UHD would cost 650$ instead of 800$, but nooo you have to pay an extra 150$ for a stupid tablet that you don't want.
Because of that I will take a FHD like the W600.
The LG FHD TVs are worse than Sony in terms of motion blur, rtings even consider the LF550 not playable for video games. Samsung TVs are better but I am still afraid panels will burn like toasts as they have zero protection and they use 80s slim power cable without Ground

If you want to play on 1080P then you'll definitely be satisfied, I couldn't find a better gaming TV recently due to high input lag. Main pros for this TV is the high picture quality, very decent blacks and low input lag. I am currently playing Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition running at 60fps and it looks impressive.

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

Thanks HS.
So I will buy the W600 unless I find a super offer on the W800c without the PS3
All games run on 4K now on PC, but the thing is that as Tech Guru said you need a very expensive set like 2x GTX 980 if you want to run them at 60fps. I can run Borderlands Prequel and Alan Wake 4K DSR  with 50-60 fps and everything on Ultra, same for Dead Space 2 and 3.
Though 2014 and 2015 games like Far Cry 4 can play fine at 1440p DSR but once I turn ON 4K DSR it drops to 20-30fps.
PC games are really nice, you can adjust graphics for your likings and the DSR thingy while waiting for UHD TVs is a huge plus compared to consoles, it really does a difference, you won't believe it's the same Alan Wake between 1080p and 4k DSR.
The W600 will be fantastic with DSR.
The day nearly all games will run at 4K + 60fps + Ultra options I will get a UHD TV

Last edited by vegetaleb (December 3 2015)

Die_Kapitan

Member

Re: Televisions war!

I am not a PC gamer, most of the exclusives that I want to play are on consoles. Most developers are focusing on consoles which are 1080P, a lot of the PC ports are badly done and you will have a better version running on the weaker/cheaper consoles. Surely some 4K games look impressive on the PC but they're scarce to begin with. Is there enough content to get a beefy rig and a decent 4K TV? probably if you're a hardcore PC gamer.

Most worthwhile console games are at either 720p or 900p, Assassin's Creed aren't a lot of ports, most if not all games will run better on a PC that costs in the same price range as a console and has way more functionality, an Athlon 860K and an R7 370 will play all games at 1080p at at least medium settings and get 60FPS whereas a console cannot. Most games support 4K and that's all you really need, you can't say they're scarce, nearly every recent game support 4K. I respect your opinion about gaming on console but don't use washed up arguments against PC.

H.S

Member

Re: Televisions war!

@vegetaleb, you're welcome. Good luck.

@Die_Kapitan, You made me sound like I am bashing the PC. 720p/900p are mostly on Xbox One, the PS4 is running most games on 1080P and only a few games on 900p. As I stated before, the developers main focus is making games for the consoles first since it is easy to pirate games for the PC. A decent port can obliterate any current-gen console but that depends on whether they decided to do a good port or not.

Most advanced rigs can't save a bad port, it'll have stuttering, unstable frame-rate and screen tearing. Batman Arkham Knight was an atrocious port to the point they had to cancel it and refund those who bought it for the PC. There are many other bad ports due to poor optimization. If you read my post well, you would've known that I was blaming the developers, not underestimating the PC capabilities. PCs are upgradeable, consoles aren't. No argument there.

Last edited by H.S (December 4 2015)

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

I asked about the W800c minus the PS3, they would give it to me for 600$ and even lower perhaps (special price).
I will win with the W800c over the W600b:
-3D
-Newer model 2015 vs 2014
-+3'' size
-Android OS making the smart part faster and more complete

THOUGH!
Giving the review of rting about both TVs for gaming the W600b is still a little better:
-8 ms faster
-Very slightly better motion blur
-A little better viewing angles
-50 to 100$ less

I have to decide till next Tuesday, help me!

H.S

Member

Re: Televisions war!

You may want to go with the W800c if you care about 3D (I honestly don't). A 1 year newer model and the additional 3" aren't significant. The Android feature is a nice addition though. If you're going to sit directly in front of the TV most of the times, you shouldn't worry about the viewing angle and especially that there is only a little difference.

I would still go with the W600b for the lower price and input lag. If you competitively play fighting and FPS games, it might be the better choice for you.

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

I don't care about 3D, on 43'' it doesn't give good effects and only very few games have 3D support like Tomb Raider and even so it's limited to 720p @60 or 1080p @30 because of nvidia (they want to sell their own 3D monitors)

Tech Guru

Member

Re: Televisions war!

@H.S

PS4 and PC , you are comparing two totally different leagues

On Recent PS4 Titles:

Star Wars: Battled Front (900p / 60fps)
Call of Duty Black Ops 3 ( resolution scales down from 1920 X 1080 to 1360 X 1080 )
Fall Out 4 (1080p / 30fps with dips to 24-25)
Assassin Creed Syndicate (900p /30fps with Dips to 26-27)
Just Cause 3 (1080p / 30Fps)

All game are well optimized for PlayStation 4 and Xbox One , but sure the Xbox One in a "knot-shell" a weak console for graphic processing.  PS4 boasts a 1.84 teraflop GPU.

I own both , and linking a PC to a 50 inch TV and using the PS4 Controller through a USB - Blue Tooth Dongle , and playing at 1080p / 60 Fps or 1440p for example with even high/medium setting and 2xMSAA simply puts the PS4 in ashes to ashes and dust to dust , even  750Ti (2.54TFlops) , i3 4130 and 8GB of Ram you can achieve that better experience

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit … e-analysis

In addition to cheaper Games (Steam , G2A ETC.., Free MP , or you and can go all around for cheap cracked games compared to USD 80 for each title release on the PS4.

Georges00

Member

Re: Televisions war!

Fahed is having a promotion on a telefunken 49" 4k UHD - SmartTV - Android TV for 499$ yes 499$
But it has a 8ms response time. So definetely not for gaming.
Fahed rabieh btw
I have no idea about it's quality though

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

Fahed is having a promotion on a telefunken 49" 4k UHD - SmartTV - Android TV for 499$ yes 499$
But it has a 8ms response time. So definetely not for gaming.
Fahed rabieh btw
I have no idea about it's quality though

The original Telefunken brand was one of the best and made in Germany, but now it's made by a Chinese factory and only countries like Lebanon have it rebranded to Telefunken. So picture quality is most probably as good as Hisense (which is not good) and Input Lag is totally unknown, could be a good 20 to 30ms or a slow 100ms, also is it HDMI 2.0? does it have a minimum of protection for the panel?

I still don't have an answer if it's better to get the 43w800c  it has a real 100-120hz panel and we can use the OC trick of blurbuster to unlock 100-120hz and so play at high fps,but it's not sure the trick will work,  so if not I will obviously take the 40w600b.
BTW many reviews are saying the 3D of the W800c is not good so it won't be an advantage for me at all.

@HS can you plug your TV to your PC via HDMI? If yes can you check if you can get more than 60hz?
Here you go the OC tutorial: http://www.blurbusters.com/overclock/120hz-pc-to-tv/

Last edited by vegetaleb (December 6 2015)

Georges00

Member

Re: Televisions war!

Nothing about HDMI 2.0 or if it's even a 1.1
Product code: TFK 49L71F-UHD SMART

Edit: Banque audi is selling it for 50$/month over a year which is 600$
Fahed is not doing an offer apparently.

Last edited by Georges00 (December 7 2015)

H.S

Member

Re: Televisions war!

@vegetaleb, My PC doesn't have an HDMI port, sorry can't help.

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

I am finally gonna get the W600b, I checked about my ex-samsung TV and it was also a 100/120hz panel just like the W800c, though even with the OC Hz trick from blurbusters I could just reach 75hz max, so it's not worth paying 100$ more for barely 15fps more, it was very slightly smoother. Must be the HDMI 1.4 limits giving a max of 75hz, 4K TVs with HDMI 2.0 and 120hz panels can give 100 to 120hz.
Neither Sony nor LG did any offer for Christmas on 4k TVs, their Christmas catalogs are still not released while we are already the 8th December, if they think that people will wait for the 23th December to buy they are very mistaken. All the serious buyers will buy now because they are afraid of stock problems

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

The Viatek dude tried to convince me to not buy a 1080p 40'' Sony TV aka W600b but to get the 49X8300 instead.
It's 300$ more (if you take out the PS4 of the offer) than the 40W600b but I win +9'' , REAL 4K (with all its subpixels), and Android OS.
Dunno if I should go for it or get the 300$ cheaper FHD version?

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

Ok after hours of search:
Advantages of the 49X830c:
-4K obviously, and the Sony are known to have the best upscaling quality.
- +9'' screen state
- Android OS, it's more for speed than really contents.
- Confirmed 120hz at 1080p via PC

Advantages of the 40W600b:
-It's a VA panel while the X830c is a IPS, meaning the blacks and colors are much better on the w600b.
-Small faster input lag gain about 4ms
-Cheaper

So what is giving better looking games? Better details (4k) or better blacks and colors (w600b)?

H.S

Member

Re: Televisions war!

Does that 4K model support HDR? If you're going to run native 4K content then go for it. But I wouldn't recommend that model if it has inferior picture quality and especially inferior blacks.

Check out this video. This video explains how the picture quality is more crucial than having a higher resolution display.

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

Does that 4K model support HDR? If you're going to run native 4K content then go for it. But I wouldn't recommend that model if it has inferior picture quality and especially inferior blacks.

Check out this video. This video explains how the picture quality is more crucial than having a higher resolution display.

Thanks for the video, yeah I am convinced the W600b is still a better pick, it has a VA panel and much deeper blacks+contrast.
The W600b is known to be a very good gaming TV while the X8300 not really, I red that motion blur with the X8300 is also worst in games because of the poor contrast.
Well it will definitely take 2 years before the 4K TV tech settles down, like you said 2 features that are costly nowadays will be under 800$ in 2 years: HDR and Oled

BTW Abed Tahan is doing a bazar starting tomorrow, the only branch I can reach is Mkalles but I doubt I will go there because of lack of car places, if someone goes please list the good TV deals for 40'' to 43'' specially Sony

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

I was in the same situation around two months ago. It is still not worthy to get a 4K. If I had to get a 4K TV, I would wait until they further improve the OLED technology. Until there is a 4K OLED with HDR support and low input lag with a reasonable price.

Two months ago, I got the Bravia 40W600B for $550. It is a FHD and I mainly use it for console gaming. It has a great picture quality and low input lag, around 33ms.

Got the same TV, it's not a good time yet for 4K.
This Sony is really very very good, better than samsung, everything works flawlessly and picture is crisp.
Though I couldn't find an internet browser and Opera TV Shop app is not working (temporary not working message)

H.S

Member

Re: Televisions war!

Congrats, yes it is a great value for money TV. Very decent picture quality for that price and an excellent gaming TV. I believe it is a bit early for 4K as well. I am curious how it compares to your previous Samsung in terms of picture quality and sound?

You already updated your TV right? Both apps are available, "Opera TV Store" is at the very first page, first row, third one from the left. The internet browser is at the very last page, second row, third one from the right. If you still can't find them, go to (Settings>Network>Refresh Internet Content) then they'll be available for sure.

You can also use a US proxy then refresh internet content and there will be a lot of new apps that weren't present before like Netflex, WWE network and a lot of other news apps.

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

Congrats, yes it is a great value for money TV. Very decent picture quality for that price and an excellent gaming TV. I believe it is a bit early for 4K as well. I am curious how it compares to your previous Samsung in terms of picture quality and sound?

You already updated your TV right? Both apps are available, "Opera TV Store" is at the very first page, first row, third one from the left. The internet browser is at the very last page, second row, third one from the right. If you still can't find them, go to (Settings>Network>Refresh Internet Content) then they'll be available for sure.

You can also use a US proxy then refresh internet content and there will be a lot of new apps that weren't present before like Netflex, WWE network and a lot of other news apps.

Thanks found the internet browser app :)
The opera store app is not working.
I will do a detailed review and comparison with my ex samsung, but I can say already the picture quality is better than on the samsung and games are much more responsive thanks to low input lag

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

Ok here's my quick review and comparison of the Sony 40W600b:
Design:
Very classy design! It's all plastic but it's high quality plastic, the stand is metalish. I really like the discreet blue and green led under the panel, much more original than samsung one.
Picture quality:
There are tons of presets like Cinema,game,vivid...and you can customize each onefor your likings, the picture quality is excellent, blacks are very good (VA panel) colors are natural, details with 720p and 1080p are totally WOW, I can say it's better than with the samsung F6400. 480p and lower resolution are well upscaled, equal to the samsung.
Panel:
Very good black uniformity for a VA panel, viewing angles are better than with the samsung f6400 but as a TV targeted for rooms and not ''salons'' viewing angles are not really a big matter.
Clouding is much better than on the samsung, there are only one on the left and on the top but they are very subtle while on the samsung it was 3x more and more obvious (whiter).
GAMING:
I played 1.5 year with the 42ms F6400 and thought it was nice...until I played with the 40W600b! The 30ms of the sony feel much more responsive, even more than the supposed 20ms samsung 32C520 LCD I used right before. Call me crazy but it looks like a 30ms at Sony = 15ms at samsung!!
I feared motion blur with camera movement will be bad as some very few persons mentioned in the internet, honestly I felt not a single blur during games and I tested: Fallout 4, Allan Wake with DSR 4K @30fps, Far Cry 4, Assassin Creed Syndicate. I think people who said they felt motion blur are dudes who used to play on super fast 144hz monitors and were not pleased to go down to 60hz.
Games look very crisp and detailed with 1080p and even more with DSR 1440p and Alan Wake @4K.
All and all a very good gaming TV.
Smart apps:
It has what I need most from a smart TV: an internet browser and Youtube, there are tons of apps like Accuweather and North Face but most of them are useless. I couldn't get the Opera TV Store to work, it's saying the service is not available anymore!
Browsing the apps and using the apps is MUCH faster than with the samsung TV, both on the dual core F6400 and the Quad core of my parents.

Some things I didn't like:
-Too short stand, it's a very stylish stand but too short, I had to put some books under so the furniture's borders won't hide the lower part of the panel.
-UK plug didn't work, I had to use the normal one, I prefer t use the UK one because it has a fuse inside to give more protection.

Some things I like:
-Good protection against electrical surge thanks to an external power supply, it's like a laptop charger.
-Very light for a 40'' TV
-Compatible with PC 4:4:4 @1080p

Now I am trying to get the best settings for movies and games, I tried some suggested picture settings for PS4 but it's not great for the PC gaming so I came back to normal Game mode settings.
How to change Picture settings from normal to Cinema using USB movies? I can't go to the Home menu without going out of the media player

H.S

Member

Re: Televisions war!

The UK plug should work, did you try to use a plug adapter/different power socket? You can change the picture settings for USB movies, just press options from your remote>Scene Select.

What are the suggested PS4 picture settings?

Last edited by H.S (December 22 2015)

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

The UK plug should work, did you try to use a plug adapter/different power socket? You can change the picture settings for USB movies, just press options from your remote>Scene Select.

What are the suggested PS4 picture settings?

PS4:

Picture Adjustments> Setting Mode: Custom

Backlight: 9

Picture: 95

Brightness: 45

Color: 55

Hue; 0

Color Temp: Neutral (Cool looks good too, really makes the blue pop, if you like that go for cool) I prefer a more natural look, so i chose Neutral.

Sharpness: 50

Noise reduction: OFF

MPEG Red: OFF

Reality Creation: OFF

Smooth Grad: OFF

Advanced Settings:

Everything off except the following,

Live Color: HIGH (Colors just pop)

Detail Enhancer: HIGH (makes a HUGE Difference in quality)

vegetaleb

Banned

Re: Televisions war!

The UK plug should work, did you try to use a plug adapter/different power socket? You can change the picture settings for USB movies, just press options from your remote>Scene Select.

What are the suggested PS4 picture settings?

Hello bro!
I don't know if I buy an external HDD for this TV, did you try one?
Can you record on it? In the European and US models you can but I couldn't find a record option here