g-087 wroteI'm not actually a real computer geek anymore. hacking got me in a lot of serious troubles. that's why I more interested in 'mind hacking' and in social engineering.
I'd say you're still a geek. The fact that you called it 'mind hacking' proves it!
well, when i was in the states, they called me "Mind Fucker"
I wonder why...
Gomez012 wroteI am actually very interested in body language, since I find it fascinating how you can know a lot about people off their gestures.
Do you have any other tips?
Watch the Godfather (all the series). You need to watch the same episode a few times before you start to understand the body language. Also it is very relative and culture based; can't use the same formula when dealing for instance with Chinese or Japanese.
g-087 wrotewhen dealing with different cultures you need to be careful to take into consideration the private area for everyone. when you're dealing with a village girl you must seat farther then when dealing with a town girl.
because in a village the density of people is less than in a town so a person have a bigger personal space and usually if you're not so close to her she can be offended if you seat near her. so it's not a good idea to take a 'fresh' village girl to a stuffed night club even if she find it an interesting experience because hacking will be so hard. she will have her 'firewall' on :D
That doesn't sound right.
Most city people value their personal space much more, precisely because to them it's a precious, rare thing. Try being in New York and getting in someone's face in the subway or elevator. They will make sure to let you know how uncomfortable they are. Same in the big crowds hurrying around on the sidewalk... pushing people around is a common occurrence.
I think it has more to do with culture. "Hot" people like Italians, Mexicans or Lebanese, are not so picky about being crowded.
i hope this will help you a bit
the radius of air buble around suburban middle class [...]
1. Intimate zone (between 15 cm and 45 cm)
2. personal zone (between 46 cm and 1.22 m)
3. social zone (between 1.22 and 3.6 m)
4. public zone (over 3.6 m)
by Allan Pease
They will make sure to let you know how uncomfortable they are
of course they will because you're in their intimate zone not even in their personal zone where they can tolerate it. do you imagine being stuck in an elevator with strangers?! and that's why I've mentioned the difference between the city and the village (the density of people is not the same). the Japanese's intimate zone is about 5 cm!!! that's why when you talk to a japanese you feel always he is moving forward and you're moving backward because his social zone is smaller than yours and he need you to get in but he will end up in your personal zone. and it has nothing to do with beauty i really don't know why you have such an idea :/
g-087 wrotei hope this will help you a bit
the radius of air buble around suburban middle class [...]
1. Intimate zone (between 15 cm and 45 cm)
2. personal zone (between 46 cm and 1.22 m)
3. social zone (between 1.22 and 3.6 m)
4. public zone (over 3.6 m)
by Allan Pease
They will make sure to let you know how uncomfortable they are
of course they will because you're in their intimate zone not even in their personal zone where they can tolerate it. do you imagine being stuck in an elevator with strangers?! and that's why I've mentioned the difference between the city and the village (the density of people is not the same). the Japanese's intimate zone is about 5 cm!!! that's why when you talk to a Japanese you feel always he is moving forward and you're moving backward because his social zone is smaller than yours and he need you to get in but he will end up in your personal zone. and it has nothing to do with beauty i really don't know why you have such an idea :/
heheh this reminds me of an incident in Boston, i had a lecturer who was very rude to all people, very sarcastic and undermining, absolutely no limits, he was the alpha male and the whole package, so then he called upon me to come to the board, he began with his sarcasm etc. well, what he didn't know was me, so he had his run of verbal attack and i replied in a decent manner etc. but every time i replied, i intentionally took a step forward towards him. at the end i was in his personal zone, and he began to step back and with every step his verbal attack decreased until he called it of by stating that i am in his personal zone and i am too close! after that he kept on barking at all the other class members but didn't raise his tone to me after that.
being calm and gesturing a counter act got the msg thru that his behavior was not accepted. it was like taming a dog.

it is irritating how some people presume that they are in control, and yet so vulnerable.
Beauty?... when did I mention beauty? Ah you mean the "hot" comment? :D I meant hot blooded, not cold like certain European countries. You know what I mean. Compare the average Italian or Lebanese (loud voice, lots of hand gestures) to the average Swede / Dutchman (calmer behaviour.) That's what I meant by "hot" :)
talking about hot and cold, I had a colleague from another country drop by to resolve a technical issue that was going on since he was this products development support (really unpredictable behavior), anyhow going on between hot and cold. after having him briefed and let him start his investigation, i began to drop by on him reminding him that we expect results. after several hours; he broke! his comment was: if there is a limit for sarcasm, I had passed it several hours earlier! the funny thing is that almost all of what i did, should it have been done on a comedy series, the audience would be laughing, this guy was on a verge of a brakedown! to top this story, he comes from a "hot" background where the people are known to be rude, obnoxious, selfcentered, the whole deal... go figure...
i really like your first story. it's a classic move but it always works. and hope you get your lesson from the second story. maybe during your comedy show you've missed a lot of alarming gestures. it happens all the time. the hardest thing is to act normally, focus on your idea and to look for body gestures. it needs practice. so next time don't blow it up if you're expecting good results specially if you know the person's background well.

Bassen, hot means sexy specially if you mentioned Lebanese Mexicans Italians!!! and you want me to believe that hot = hot blooded. but I'll keep that in mind for next time so i don't mix them up :D

you know i enjoy summer the most. sexy ladies go out almost naked but this summer is devastating. it's too hot so they don't even even go out of their rooms and they always say: "3am moot ktir chob" :|
@g-087 actually, i was being intentionally sarcastic and cornering the guy. I had my reasons. it was really juicy to have him thank and apologies to others.. he just had to shut himself up and do it ... I was bad.. but as i said, i had my reasons, the poor guy didnt even know about those reasons ! i am bad...

anyhow another story from last night, I spent the evening with some colleagues etc, and there was a new face, a femme fatal, she got curious about me and began playing here femme fatal role, the diva that bosses everyone and spins them around her little finger, well she didnt know me, she did all her flirty things and show and hanged around etc etc, i kept cool, did not gesture any interests and i then twice tapped her on the head just as you would tap a pet dog. she went nuts and lost her act, the horse was tamed.

what can i say, everyone has a weak point.. even I do

...tap..tap...
and i then twice tapped her on the head just as you would tap a pet dog
I can't believe you did that!!!
I'm no trying to give you a pick up lesson but if I were you I won't behave this way..
the reason why you study body language is to anticipate any move and not to drive people crazy!!
i believe that's rude what you did to her honestly and you can't expect any other reaction from her.
you say she bosses every one so she has something special maybe she's so pretty. showing a little bit of interest would be the best move to me. first of all you score some new social points and apparently she's easy to read so why waisting an easy target?!
@g-087: What you just said to BashLogic makes you all the less credible (not that you were much credible to start with).
@arithma: it looks like you have a problem accepting the body language. make your point clear please. you can question every thing in life but you must have solid arguments. I were discussing BashLogic's technique dealing with a particular situation. what's wrong with that?
the theory of language is one thing, the implementation of the language is another thing.
maybe i did not make myself clear, I had no interest in that person and I had less interest
in watching her act. my actions were specific to the point of controlling and not to please
or indulge.

your comments were based on presumptions, a factor that can very much mislead when
practicing the body language.
@BashLogic: I can't believe someone interested in social studies have said that. even if you're not interested, and I'm not asking you to take her on a date, but you must deal with every kind of people even the most disgusting one. you must create your own 'database' of any kind of people you might meet. consider yourself in love with a bossy lady or you have a bossy female boss. what will you do to break down her attitude? and please don't tell me that you won't be in love with such a woman or you will quite. it's LOVE (a lot of examples could be suggested here. it's up to you to look for them to avoid them in real life) if you don't have enough informations you might take a false step and ruin everything.
I'll tell you why you've wasted a great catch!!
first of all studies revealed that confident and secure persons show less body gestures than others (you might not have a lot of clues to study them). that lady is not only showing a lot of body gestures but also flirting gestures!!!
that means that she's agitated and insecure and also you're her weak point. you can't find a better person to study bossy ladies!!! all you have to do is to maintain a small chat and to keep her agitated and insecure in time. more you have met bossy ladies more you can do it easily. you can't imagine how much informations about her 'bossy' personality she can reveal you.
This is part of my studies technique. you might not agree with me and I respect that.
but I'm interested to know about your technique on how to study people on the field and if you have any critics on mine you welcome.
g-087 wrotefirst of all studies revealed that confident and secure persons show less body gestures than others (you might not have a lot of clues to study them). that lady is not only showing a lot of body gestures but also flirting gestures!!!
that means that she's agitated and insecure and also you're her weak point. you can't find a better person to study bossy ladies!!! all you have to do is to maintain a small chat and to keep her agitated and insecure in time. more you have met bossy ladies more you can do it easily. you can't imagine how much informations about her 'bossy' personality she can reveal you.
This is part of my studies technique. you might not agree with me and I respect that.
but I'm interested to know about your technique on how to study people on the field and if you have any critics on mine you welcome.
- a character with a spine is more respected as a friend or a foe in comparison to a character that pleases and gestures as a friend or a foe.

- for one thing, dude, get the hint, i did not have interest in that character, I just got married two months ago, and one of the reasons to stop something at a dead point is to stop for rumors to fire up from such acts. working environments can be very active and hefty with that. so it is not always about the single body language session, it is about being two steps ahead and controlling the situation. it is always case dependent as to which works in which interest, being blunt could be your ticket way out of it, then again it could be being pleasant. there are cultural differences that need to be noted, in some countries, you can never play the blunt role, in others, if you dont, then you aint got balls.

- now consider a character, a bossy lady that has a crush on you, you have made it clear with "humane" methods the lack of interest. this character continues hitting on you, not giving up, then you switch to the blunt and rude role, you will have hard time gaining the result because you have played the different roles. that is as if playing all your cards in a poker game. in such a case, things are going to backfire at some point, actually on several points. instead of going head to head on the subject and regardless of the means of being pleasant or mean, you would approach the case from a different angle and subject before the other even gets to that point where the other is geared up to face your pleasant or mean response. a preemptive action.

- in regards to the means and methods, yes, confident people withhold themselves and are often blunt. due to the fact that they do not need to be otherwise unless they are playing with someone in order to gain something. this something often is a short term gain of which they get bored of after the win.

- as for the interaction with a bossy lady, continuing on your presumption, the technique that you described could backfire, the reason for that is a bossy character needs to make a braking point decision as to when to call it off if no results are gained within a given time period, going beyond that braking point will only irritate the long term relationship between the two characters.

- in regards to technique, the answer is simple, be objective and not subjective when observing, have a broad "database" of characters and situations to refer to.
this character continues hitting on you, not giving up, then you switch to the blunt and rude role, you will have hard time gaining the result because you have played the different roles. that is as if playing all your cards in a poker game. in such a case, things are going to backfire at some point
you're absolutely right. when i first started to practicing this technique backfire was my biggest problem. i didn't know how to overcome it and it's painful. but i didn't give up this method. after a long time i realized that backfire was not my problem but the pre-backfire period. it's all about experience so you don't have to play "different roles". you can get precious informations about the person from the first look and then lead him. even the bossiest girl when she release she can't control you she will give up and I'm sure there's a lot of classy ways to show her that (i'm taking the bossy girl as an example and it's not related to your story)

I suggest this book: Face Reading How to know anyone at a Glance - Barbara Roberts
I think that body language is already interpreted - at the subconscious level maybe - even before you have the time to study it.
rolf wroteI think that body language is already interpreted - at the subconscious level maybe - even before you have the time to study it.
partially very true, if you see teeth, they symbolize:
- agression
- happiness
- awkwardness

just an example..
Very interesting rolf! Actually the subconscious mind picks up on body language far more than the conscious one. You "instinctively" know if a person is open/closed, angry, calm, receptive, ...

Take this: Has it ever happened that you dislike a person for "no real reasons"? You just cannot stand to see them? It could mean that you picked up on something her body language was showing.