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Hello everyone, Formal and Informal education has always been a debatable issue, some people prefer pure formal, some prefer pure informal and some use both. Recently I have discovered that informal education is as important as formal education if not even more, as long as you have the enthusiasm and love for the subject you are working on. Informal education started with me since the days I was at school, but it has always been instigated by formal education by being introduced to basics and then I would carry on with the advanced stuff on my own. Actually, in the subjects that I love I just couldn't tolerate reaching a point were I will have to rely on the teacher to learn, I always preferred being experienced in things I like beforehand through informal education, I always feel that time is running and there is no time to wait for class. In my opinion formal education is important but it is just a starter in some cases. Also formal education can help in making you learn things you don't like much, and not experienced much in that may be useful to you when you work on stuff you like.

Anyways, I a sure this forum is full of Geeks who are full with enthusiasm and love to what they do, many people here learned lots of stuff on their own and do much better than many who just followed formal education and always relied on the teacher and classroom(I am not saying that is bad, but IMO insufficient), whether on the level of programming, web development, electronics and robotics. There is always that feeling that you are so happy, despite doing mistakes while you are learning on your own and the feeling of joy while doing what you love whether you learned through school or on your own.

So please ladies and gentlemen, share your experience, ideas, thoughts, and beliefs, about informal education v.s. formal education education here, I would love to hear about your experience, have a good day :)

EDIT: Here are some interesting links about the subject you may like to check out:

http://www.infed.org/i-intro.htm
http://joi.ito.com/weblog/2010/02/28/formal-vs-infor.html
You need both and more. Institutions provide discipline, and discipline is essential. The important question you should ask yourself is, what is better for YOU to do? improve your discipline by focusing on what is being provided? Or just do whatever is enough to "complete" your institution requirements and just skip ahead to more "interesting" subjects?

This is a question that i failed to answer a decade ago and i'm regretting every moment of it.
xterm wroteYou need both and more. Institutions provide discipline, and discipline is essential. The important question you should ask yourself is, what is better for YOU to do? improve your discipline by focusing on what is being provided? Or just do whatever is enough to "complete" your institution requirements and just skip ahead to more "interesting" subjects?

This is a question that i failed to answer a decade ago and i'm regretting every moment of it.
Would you give us more details. I am sorry you regret your choices but perhaps you can give us a little advice. I am personally concerned since I have as well left the usual track of picking up employment at a company and starting up my own before I complete the age of 23.
It's like freelance vs full time job. One is safer but slower/more limited, the other one is more risky and inconsistent, but with higher possible rewards.
arithma wroteWould you give us more details. I am sorry you regret your choices but perhaps you can give us a little advice. I am personally concerned since I have as well left the usual track of picking up employment at a company and starting up my own before I complete the age of 23.
I think it's safe to say that this is mostly under the computer science field. Is starting up your own better than being employed? Is taking the safe road as rolf said fruitful ?

It's a big dilemma.

Scenario A: You get employed you jump from job to job satisfied.

The most common scenario. It guarantees that you are able to pay your bills on time. Your life is stable, you are saving money, you are getting a diverse experience. The problem is, you get sucked in and as years go by, Scenario B would sway further and further away from you. You'd reach a point where you are terribly annoyed with the field that you chose and loved given that orders are always coming from the top and you're bound by what you are told. And given that you are now handed a bundle of bills at the end of the month you are *forced* to stay in Scenario A or take a leap of faith, quit and hope for the best in Scenario B

Scenario B: You start your own company or fish for a project or idea that would make you, yes, rich.

People that choose this scenario are people that either (1) Came from Scenario A (2) *just* don't like to get employed (3) are already rich, or rich enough (4) do not have much responsibilities aka bills, mouths to feed.

Each case as well as the outcome is different and i cannot provide any insight about whether or not its a good choice. Then again, maybe i can.

(1) Don't do it unless you have a backup plan.
(2) If you fall into (3) and (4) as well, do it.
(3) Might as well, it won't matter anyways.
(4) If you don't fall into (3), you're taking a big risk. If you fail to achieve what you started out to, your experience is close to none and going to Scenario A is difficult and will make your life miserable.

--

My advice is, from my current perspective (Married, bills, oh dear lots and lots of bills) living in lebanon, people should stick with Scenario A *AND* try to do Scenario B outside work. You guarantee your income and your stability and you try with the little time you have (Yes, it's very little) outside work, to get yourself into Scenario B with lots of experience, perhaps some capital to fund your own project/company.

There is also a gotcha in all of this. If you get a *chance* at something good, never seize to take it, no matter the scenario. This is my greatest regret.
My plan:
1. Graduate at the age of 22
2. get employed from 8 AM to 5 PM like everyone else.
3. save up at least 2 hours a day to work on freelance projects
4. save up some good money to get me started with my own business
5. be successful at what I do and eventually get rich
6. get married, have 2 kids, pay the bills, enjoy my life
7. die
the end...
Kassem wroteMy plan:
1. Graduate at the age of 22
2. get employed from 8 AM to 5 PM like everyone else.
3. save up at least 2 hours a day to work on freelance projects
4. save up some good money to get me started with my own business
5. be successful at what I do and eventually get rich
6. get married, have 2 kids, pay the bills, enjoy my life
7. die
the end...
Mine would be:

1. Build an empire
2. ???
3. Profit!
samer wrote
Kassem wroteMy plan:
1. Graduate at the age of 22
2. get employed from 8 AM to 5 PM like everyone else.
3. save up at least 2 hours a day to work on freelance projects
4. save up some good money to get me started with my own business
5. be successful at what I do and eventually get rich
6. get married, have 2 kids, pay the bills, enjoy my life
7. die
the end...
Mine would be:

1. Build an empire
2. ???
3. Profit!
I forgot to mention buying a Bently GT after getting rich :)

But usually where do you guys get your informal education from? Books, tutorials, articles, magazines, video training?
Kassem wroteBut usually where do you guys get your informal education from? Books, tutorials, articles, magazines, video training?
All of the above.
To me, textbook knowledge alone will not get you too far. I say that from experience. I finished my first year of engineering last year, had a 4-month internship with a wind power company and then I was back to university in the fall. The experience I gained allowed me to understand the true meaning and the full use of what I learned. I applied many things I learned in my courses during my work term.

As you guys said, discipline is very important. Both work and education will teach it to you.

On the other side, computers, hardware and tech in general have always been my hobby. However, i would not specialize in them in university. Therefore, for example in my case, I can work in the field of power engineering through my degree while maintaining a high level of tech knowledge through my hobby that I develop on my own via internet, building my own PCs, books, magazine, etc.
Thanks ayman for this nice topic.

well personally i think formal education is essential at a young age just to give you basics as Ayman said but wen you are like 15 you should have a clear idea about what you like and what you don't , at this point informal/self education will become the most important and it's curiosity/your dream that will keep you on reading and reading and reading.
But self education isn't safe because driven by your passion you can skip basic stuff. I mean if someone is obsessed in tech stuff well he will try starting with the hard stuff while he should start learning form point 0 (you can't for example program a game without starting with the easy useless boring stuff) so you should be very determined and very patient to be successful at it or it will destroy you.
But all this doesn't mean that we should leave and dump the formal one because you always needs the diploma to work (I agree with Xsever about the scenarios and his advise) or to leave Lebanon and go to another UNI outside leb where I believe they have better evaluation and respect and opportunities when it come to personal work.
Not only informal education is important but what is far more important is : DREAMING because dreaming create for us goal that we become obsessed with so we do everything to achieve it, that where informal edu come. But studying for studying well i don't think it will keep you focused on something

Personally , I found myself very curious this why I read a lot of books (scientific mainly) and before uni I had some programing experience but not that big actually very basic. Now as we are taking them in UNI, I am always hungry for more, doing stuff at my own, trying to create new exercises/challenges for myself, reading and learning more advanced stuff cause we have covered the basic stuff in class.
And there is something, I don't do that because I want to start a business or get rich, its just for FUN and to feed my CURIOSITY and achieving my childhood dream, I believe that money should be the last thing we should think of when we want to start something because without knowing it will come when you are successful no matter where or what you did/study.

And for this topic there are several quotes for Einstein that I'd like to say:
Einstein wroteEducation is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school.

I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.

Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere
And there is something, I don't do that because I want to start a business or get rich, its just for FUN and to feed my CURIOSITY and achieving my childhood dream, I believe that money should be the last thing we should think of when we want to start something
because without knowing it will come when you are successful no matter where or what you did/study.
I agree with you 100% on that mate, money should NOT be one's dream or goal it's just a means that goes and comes by time as you are living and that's what many people miss.

I have seen, many people going to uni just to be able make money and then buy a car and do all that classical stuff etc..., I don't mean making money nor buying a car is bad but it shouldn't be one's main goal because what is the purpose of having it all, without having a real life goal that you can apply it upon, I mean people are always obsessed by getting the means but few look towards end of what they are doing.

And as G90 said, dreaming is the essence of having this feeling that makes you so passionate about doing what's in your mind to learn more, investigate and design. Since my childhood I have always been a dreamer, I always dreamed one day I will be able to do something new that will make humanity's life better through technology, after all we all live to make a change, something that will make this place better for our children and grandchildren who will come after us or else we will only be calculated as numbers part of the births and deaths that passed over earth.

Btw thanks G90 for these wonderful quotes, it is really a joy to read them, have a good day everyone and happy dreaming :)
@GN90: what you said is so damn true. You earned my respect man :)

Best source for informal education for those looking to learn web development: DevelopPHP.com. I learned ALOT from this place. The admin of that site is an American guy called Adam Khoury whose grandparents were Lebanese. He is a great tutor and he keeps on doing tutorials at an incredible frequency! His tutorials are straight to the point and cover almost everything concerning Flash, PHP/MySQL, some Illustrator, Fireworks... etc. It's definitely worth checking out...
I just want to add something very important:

Once you apply something you learned in a formal way into a real life situation (work-term, project, etc), you will feel the link between the formal and informal education. Being able to use equations for example, and come up with a final real-world solution/product leaves a big satisfactory feeling. You will look at the end results and say: "I know how you work. I designed you"

Also as the others said, never aim for money when it comes to education. I know many people who have done that and they are still lost picking majors :D If you do not like what you are studying at all, you will hit a wall sooner or later.

Plan wisely.
learning just to learn -> get a degree -> work actually pays off but not worth it ! you really must love what you study .

informal learning takes time , talking about my self , i took a lot of time to learn so little in the field of electronics and robotics , but i got practical training doing that ! :) while in a learning institution like a university for example you learn those fast and with slight practical training , many people graduate with electronics related majors with slight clue of what they have learned ! and most of them end up in business related jobs ! the monstrosity !
Talking about learning just for making good money I'd like to mention something I've learned in my Management course. Well, basically you cannot motivate professionals with money, or at least money doesn't have much of an influence on a professional than an executive for example. According to many surveys done in North America and Europe, professionals are usually dedicated to their profession and not to the job or the company they work for. So they would take a job which pays less but provides a better job i.e: a job that would push their limits and induce them to solve problems, analyse and reach logical solutions. And that why most of us got into programming/development/designing/electronics at an early age, even before college and we're so passionate about it - always hungry for more knowledge. If we weren't so passionate about it, we wouldn't be on this site in the first place. We love what we do and therefore we keep going to/doing whatever relates or helps us expand our knowledge and skills.
and most of them end up in business related jobs !
Ending in a business related job is not an option or a weakness but a requirement in case a person wants to be employed and be able to buy bread especially in Lebanon, business controls everything these days whether you are an engineer, or a scientist your work would be directly related to serve business goals and decisions, that's the reality.

Very few or even non existent are the tech organizations that come up with having the goal of making this world a better place rather than having making money their main objective that is hidden behind some innocent slogans such as this: "Microsoft. Your potential. Our passion."
im talking about engineers working jobs suited for accounting and finance majors ! :)
im talking about engineers working jobs suited for accounting and finance majors ! :)
lol do such people EXIST? An engineer working as an accountant ? OMG
AymanFarhat, they're still better than engineers working as taxi drivers or security guards :) and yeah they do exist... more than you think!