Ministry of Communications actually going to improve internet ;D

EddieEC · 2010-02-26T11:21:04+00:00

I read in Le Commerce a document saying the Minister of Communications he will upgrade Ogero plans. 256 KB plan will be a 2 mbps and will have a limit of 120...

battikh

my point is that if the situation is bad, if ogero is bad or if whatever is bad, it is not because it is part of the public sector but because it is ruled by corrupt and unqualified people. this is unrelated to it being public.
if you privatize it and still have corruption and unqualified people managing it, nothing much will change.
the problem is not in it being public/private, it is in the people who are ruling it. the problem is not that the government owns ogero, the problem is that the government is corrupt. that was my whole point.
i seriously don't understand how this has even to be discussed and explained...

nuclearcat

battikh wrote^^ stop using the argument that it sucks BECAUSE it is state owned. Yes, privatization is successful in USA, France, ... but it doesn't mean that the public sector is bad. saying that some cats are white doesn't mean that all cats are white.

They perform a little bit better, or a little bit worse, but they always suck. Because exclusively government owned companies have very poor management. I don't want to go deep in this story.

Is the electricty sector in France better than in UAE? Are phone calls in france cheaper than in UAE? UAE is doing very well economically (and not only because of oil, oil income in dubai is merely 10% of their total) and EVERYTHING is state owned. using your logic i should use that as an argument to say that lebanon should take over everything, close all ISPs, keep only ogero and do the same with everything else too...

You want or not, but key of their success - oil. At the beginning it gave them boost and power to grab some money, sure now they are using it. But you will see, as soon as oil importancy or price going lower - their economics will go down.

Btw, it is not 10%, "The UAE has an open economy with a high per capita income and a sizable annual trade surplus. Successful efforts at economic diversification have reduced the portion of GDP based on oil and gas output to 25%. ".

And even they are so successful, still their state owned internet sucks: "a 0.5mbit home connection costs around 200 AED per month (about 45 USD). The minimum internet connectivity package available for businesses at DIC is a 2mbit connection with a 6GB monthly limit for around 800 AED (180 USD). Bandwidth beyond the 6GB limit is charged at a higher pro-rata rate than the first 6GB."

and what applies on france and usa doesn't necessarly apply on lebanon. we are different countries, different culture, different background, different type of economies, different geopolitical situation, difference sources of income, different industries, ... should france apply federalism just because it's good in usa? what applies on one doesn't apply on all. bit of objectivity please and stop blaming everything on "it's owned by the government". fix the government, make it less corrupt, and things will get better without having to privatize everything and anything just because that's what they did in USA or ukraine or whatever.

There is universal rule - monopolist should be eliminated in ISP sector. It doesn't matter what is your skin color, mentality, history, when it comes to this business.

nuclearcat

battikh wrotemy point is that if the situation is bad, if ogero is bad or if whatever is bad, it is not because it is part of the public sector but because it is ruled by corrupt and unqualified people. this is unrelated to it being public.
if you privatize it and still have corruption and unqualified people managing it, nothing much will change.
the problem is not in it being public/private, it is in the people who are ruling it. the problem is not that the government owns ogero, the problem is that the government is corrupt. that was my whole point.
i seriously don't understand how this has even to be discussed and explained...

You can't fix people next 3-4 generations. Your nation got used to pay bribes and to take bribes (as my nation, btw).
Things will go worse and worse. They have too much power, and will be corrupted more and more, because they don't have competition, and it doesn't matter if they perform good or bad.
Bulgarians is very good example. They remove a lot of monopolistic things, made government weaker, but it makes it more healthy and force to compete and perform job not worse than commercial companies.

WizaRd

Isn't any argument involving a European country very flawed?

They're in the European Union, they must follow rules. Prime example, Slovakia.

battikh

nuclearcat wroteYou want or not, but key of their success - oil. At the beginning it gave them boost and power to grab some money, sure now they are using it. But you will see, as soon as oil importancy or price going lower - their economics will go down.

Btw, it is not 10%, "The UAE has an open economy with a high per capita income and a sizable annual trade surplus. Successful efforts at economic diversification have reduced the portion of GDP based on oil and gas output to 25%. ".

i'm talking about dubai specifically, not UAE as a whole. dubai is one of the emirates that have the fewest oil resources, therefore they get smaller shares of the oil money. it's abu dhabi that get the biggest share. in dubai specifically, oil money is actually less than 10% of the total income.
but anyways that's not very relevant to the subject.

nuclearcat wroteAnd even they are so successful, still their state owned internet sucks: "a 0.5mbit home connection costs around 200 AED per month (about 45 USD). The minimum internet connectivity package available for businesses at DIC is a 2mbit connection with a 6GB monthly limit for around 800 AED (180 USD). Bandwidth beyond the 6GB limit is charged at a higher pro-rata rate than the first 6GB."

from where did you get your information? at home i have a 2mbps unlimited connection and it costs me around 40$.

3.5G (HSPA, when i tested it i got around 7mpbs) is between 250-400 AED for the decent packages.

for 550 AED you get the 16mbps FTTH...

that's far from the europeen and usa prices, but for the region, it's pretty good...

nuclearcat wroteThere is universal rule - monopolist should be eliminated in ISP sector. It doesn't matter what is your skin color, mentality, history, when it comes to this business.

that's what jesus/mohammed said? it has to be accepted as a fact without arguments?
and sorry, but i'm not a big fan of "universal rules", that's very typical of dictatorships. if u want to apply something, saying that it was done somewhere else is not an argument ,it requires a case study based on the local market and the specific situation of lebanon, pros, cons, ...

anyways, i'm not against privatization, i'm just trying to say that it's not the only solution to our problems. and as of now, privatization is NOT a solution (in the current situation). corruption has to be fought FIRST. if you privatize the sector now, they'll sell it to people they are related to or to companies they own and it wont change a damn thing. it will be the same corrupt crappy system, still corrupt people managing the sector, ...
that's why you have to fight corruption 1st, and then things will get better. but privatizing while in such a corrupt country is a very bad idea coz it will be sold to the wrong people for the wrong reasons.

nuclearcat

battikh wrotethat's what jesus/mohammed said? it has to be accepted as a fact without arguments?

It is good to read experience of other countries.

Sir William Wells, a senior British health official, recently said: “The big trouble with a state monopoly is that it builds in massive inefficiencies and inward-looking culture.”

battikh wrotethat's why you have to fight corruption 1st, and then things will get better. but privatizing while in such a corrupt country is a very bad idea coz it will be sold to the wrong people for the wrong reasons.

Somehow i agree with you, on this subject. At same time - politics changing, they will not have anymore "exclusive backbone rights", and new politics won't let them exploit their power. That's a key.

arithma

So based on your discussions, what is the action plan for us?
Funny how much we're fighting over doing absolutely nothing. Hell we have so much argument over: will it be better, is it too good to be true. NAYCE

rolf

@battikh... what the hell is wrong with you, you keep chewing the same arguments again, I already told you:
- Who... WHO is saying that investment is bad? Not me, and not anyone else, unless I missed something in page 1 or something. (although I am generally against most investments that happen here, but that's a case-per-case thing and off-topic).
- Public sector is not bad per se, there are successful examples, but WHEN the public sector fails, spectacularly, repetitively, with awful precedents such as EDL, and and without much hope for improvement, then it should be liberalized when possible. You proposed the approach of treating corruption first. I agree, it is just another method of treating the same problem. A non corrupt government should be able to successfully manage public institutions. Personally I favor the first solution.

battikh

rolf wrote@battikh... what the hell is wrong with you, you keep chewing the same arguments again, I already told you:
- Who... WHO is saying that investment is bad? Not me, and not anyone else, unless I missed something in page 1 or something. (although I am generally against most investments that happen here, but that's a case-per-case thing and off-topic).

1- sorry but i wont re-read 4 pages just to tell you who are the people who said that. maybe you should read more than page 1...
2- is it really all about what YOU said? is there only YOU discussing the subject? and is everything i say directed to YOU? dude, watch your ego.
3- if that's the only thing you grasp from what i say, it's not really my problem
4- yes, as long as people say the same arguments (investments inogero by the gov, privatization, ...) i'll obviously answer back to the same thing. am i supposed to talk about dancing monkeys and rotten apples?

btw, it's not the 1st time that you reply to threads without reading what others have posted.

rolf wrote- Public sector is not bad per se, there are successful examples, but WHEN the public sector fails, spectacularly, repetitively, with awful precedents such as EDL, and and without much hope for improvement, then it should be liberalized when possible. You proposed the approach of treating corruption first. I agree, it is just another method of treating the same problem. A non corrupt government should be able to successfully manage public institutions. Personally I favor the first solution.

if you want to liberalize, you have to give licenses. under a corrupt government, who will get these licenses? companies owned or close to the corrupted politicians. shu stafadna?
just take the tv channels example, when they distributed the licenses. who got licenses? the channels with support from politicians or major religious sects.

kareem_nasser

Before this we should liberalize not only Telecommunication but also electricity(so that no one steals) and Water +++++the gov ppl will have their pockets full with that.

richy

Mistubishi lancer rocks. Just for the record!

http://www.tuningnews.net/news/070109/mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-x-prototype.jpg

battikh wrote
arithma wroteWell it does suck. And it is owned by the government. Simple correlation.
the mitsubishi lancer sucks
the mitsubishi lancer has 4 wheels.
simple correlation...
does the mitsubishi lancer suck because it has 4 wheels? i could even defend this argument by saying that the toyata yaris, which also has 4 wheels sucks too, which proves this point. while the ducati superbike, which has only 2 wheels, is damn awesome. which proves that vehicules with 4 wheels are crap and that the only way to do something awesome is to go 2 wheels.

that's the logic and level of arguments that are being used here (not talking about you specifically, i'm not really following specifically who is saying what)

simple correlation rarely lead you somewhere, try logical correlations instead.

rolf

In other news, the first ever farm of flying pigs has been opened in the Bekaa.

battikh

richy wroteMistubishi lancer rocks. Just for the record!

http://www.tuningnews.net/news/070109/mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-x-prototype.jpg

the lancer 1.3L has 80HP, 80!!!! 0 to 100 kmph in not less than 14sec, FOURTEEN!!!! that's awesomely crappy.
i said lancer, not lancer evo...

rolf

battikh wrotei said lancer, not lancer evo...

That's still a Lancer.
He said lancer, not lancer 1.3.

(PS: I'm sure the 1.3 needs all time 4wd with all that power)

richy

Who the hell would defend a 1.3?:)

Just be more specific next time while attacking :p.

battikh wrote
richy wroteMistubishi lancer rocks. Just for the record!

http://www.tuningnews.net/news/070109/mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-x-prototype.jpg
the lancer 1.3L has 80HP, 80!!!! 0 to 100 kmph in not less than 14sec, FOURTEEN!!!! that's awesomely crappy.
i said lancer, not lancer evo...

battikh

richy wroteWho the hell would defend a 1.3?:)

Just be more specific next time while attacking :p.
battikh wrote
richy wroteMistubishi lancer rocks. Just for the record!

http://www.tuningnews.net/news/070109/mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-x-prototype.jpg
the lancer 1.3L has 80HP, 80!!!! 0 to 100 kmph in not less than 14sec, FOURTEEN!!!! that's awesomely crappy.
i said lancer, not lancer evo...

are you talking to me or to yourself? coz it looks like your last comment is meant to yourself...

and who in hell would attack the evo and compare it to the toyota yaris? you don't make any sense dude.
if someone says lancer, by defualt it's not the evo, it's the lancer 3al neishef, no2ta 3al sater, it's common sense, just like if u say golf, it's the golf and not the gti or the r20.

and who in the world refers to the lancer evo just as "lancer"? even my sister doesn't do that.

rolf

battikh wroteand who in the world refers to the lancer evo just as "lancer"? even my sister doesn't do that.

Yeah, but he wasn't referring to the 1.3L either. I am sure there are other variants in between!

battikh

^^
he was specifically referring to the evo and not to anything else in between the lancer and the lancer evo, it's the car in the picture he posted...

and even if he was referring to something in between, the highest lancer (lancer 3al neishef, not ex, not evo) is the 2.0L, 120HP and goes from 0 to 100 kmph in 12sec. that's the BEST lancer and it still sucks. and i'm not just talking performance wise, but finishing, comfort, security, ... it sucks in EVERY way
i've driven one, and it sucks. if someone wants to argue with that, please go test drive one 1st instead of sending pictures of the evo.

kareem_nasser

Are you Off-topic guys or i am missing something....?

arithma

No, this is forum standard topic evolution.

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