Ministry of Communications actually going to improve internet ;D

EddieEC · 2010-02-26T11:21:04+00:00

I read in Le Commerce a document saying the Minister of Communications he will upgrade Ogero plans. 256 KB plan will be a 2 mbps and will have a limit of 120...

battikh

darko wrotei cant give u the correct answer, but all i can say is that the people running ogero are the same ones running the goverment

BTW, www.ogero.com.lb is down
http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://www.ogero.gov.lb

so because we live in a corrupt country, the government should stop doing what is normal (investing in the public institutions), instead of simply fighting corruption. yup, sounds logical.

i hope your realize that being a corrupt country doesn't make the idea of the government investing in its institution wrong and unfair. it's corruption that is wrong, not the investment...

rolf

battikh wrote
rolf wroteThe difference is that when you are ill you can choose to what hospital you want to go. But with the net you dont get to choose.
Sure you can buy Cyberia, but in practice, Cyberia (or anyone else) will be a reseller for Ogero.
doesn't change that the government investing in its institutions is absolutely normal.
investment and competition are 2 different thing. how can you unjustify one because of the other? that's quiet not really related if we want to tackle the subject objectively. but yes, if we want to be subjective and just blame all our daily problems on ogero, including the weather, yeah, it's a very valid point.

Nobody is blaming anyone for investing, are they? Personally, I am just saying to Ogero, hey, if you cant provide proper internet like what the people deserve, then please liberalize the market and give someone else the chance to do so.
You are right one one point, there has been a lot of blaming stuff "including bad weather" and sometimes it is exaggerated.
And although the internet is bad... not many people seem to talk about the electricity, they seem to have given up hope. Not farther then about 1 hour ago, the electricity was cut. I dont have a UPS, so evertyhing went blank. It's as if the state-owned Electricity company, and whoever was operating the switch, was telling me "khod, ejre fik, bikaffe kahraba for today".
(note: sorry for going off-topic)

hussam

Electricity goes off because the ministry belongs to a politician who wants to cut the electricity in areas where people follow his opposition.
In Ashrafieh, they sometimes turn off the electricity twice a day.

Aj_BlaZ

@hussam i hate the government of this country i don't follow anyone and because of them (plus because of no one follow the rules of many things on top of them seeing trucks on the left road as they have the right ot drive it that way and many unusual things ) i really hope to leave this country and never come back for the sake of living in a better place

battikh

hussam wroteElectricity goes off because the ministry belongs to a politician who wants to cut the electricity in areas where people follow his opposition.
In Ashrafieh, they sometimes turn off the electricity twice a day.

excuse me, don't take it the wrong way or persoanl, but what you just said is very lame.
it's as if you were not living in lebanon last year, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before, or the one before.

btw, i'm from zgharta, never had electricity for more than 12 hours per day since 1991 (the year i came back to lebanon). and if you want to make it political, how exactly is ashrafieh split politically? is it all to 1 politcal side? or has it a considerable part of it supporting the current energy minister? why would he intentionally deprive his supporters in ashrafieh from electricity? that's absurd.

hussam

Don't get me wrong. I don't like any politician over another. I'm not even Lebanese. I only said what people around me say. maybe I don't know the whole story.

J4D

hussam wroteElectricity goes off because the ministry belongs to a politician who wants to cut the electricity in areas where people follow his opposition.
In Ashrafieh, they sometimes turn off the electricity twice a day.

thats funny , do you think they have a breaker for each subscriber ? and turn off electricity of opponents ? or do you even think that workers in EDL "electricite du liban" are of one political color ? sorry to say that , but what you said is nonsence .

hussam

may be nonsense, but as I said, I was only saying what people around me say. I don't really care.

Sorry if I offended anyone. I shut my mouth about stuff I know nothing about from now on. :) I'm sincerely sorry.

kareem_nasser

They ALL want to cut electricity and they ALL agreed on that this is a conspiracy against the ppl of this country.

J4D

hussam wrotemay be nonsense, but as I said, I was only saying what people around me say. I don't really care.

Sorry if I offended anyone. I shut my mouth about stuff I know nothing about from now on. :) I'm sincerely sorry.

i think my reply was a bit harsh , sorry :)

nuclearcat

darko wroteAYYYYYY, that's gona be me in couple of years, so watch it!!!

Note: If you are "consumer" ISP - you need 2-3 qualified techs, and army of students for support
If you are development ISP, you need 5-30 qualified developers and also army for support.
Means: best you can get, or support job that most probably will make you psycho... or some small company.
There is limited amount of jobs available, cause you will be mostly hands for remote company. And your company will pay you pennys for your qualification, and thousands for *PUT_VENDOR_NAME* support plan.

battikh wrotethey should consider coming to terms with each other and start funding their own cable, if they put their mind to it, im sure they'll find enough politicians to back them up.

ISP's not allowed to lay their own cables. Not allowed to put them even to underground communications in city, and you are talking about international...

nuclearcat

battikh wroteits like saying that the government should not put money in public hospitals because it would be unfair for private ones.

Hospitals don't have monopoly rights. Different thing.

xterm

I don't think anyone is understanding the point that battikh is trying to make.

battikh

nuclearcat wroteHospitals don't have monopoly rights. Different thing.

monopoly and the government investing in its institutions are two TOTALLY unrelated things.
the government not only has the right to invest in its institutions (monopoly or not), but it also MUST do it.

the government has the monopoly over the electricity. should they not invest in the sector?
IF for some very weird reason we only had public hospitals, should the government not invest in them?
that's absurd.

plus, for ISPs, ogero doesn't have real monopoly. They have monopoly over the international links, that's it. when we have 20+ ISPs, i don't see how there's a monopoly.

battikh

nuclearcat wrote
battikh wrotethey should consider coming to terms with each other and start funding their own cable, if they put their mind to it, im sure they'll find enough politicians to back them up.

euh, it's darko who said that, not me :P

nuclearcat

battikh wrotemonopoly and the government investing in its institutions are two TOTALLY unrelated things.
the government not only has the right to invest in its institutions (monopoly or not), but it also MUST do it.

the government has the monopoly over the electricity. should they not invest in the sector?
IF for some very weird reason we only had public hospitals, should the government not invest in them?
that's absurd.

Your electricity crappy as hell, just because your government are monopoly there too and "investing" to sector, "government way" (money laundry).
Take a look to western countries. They issue licenses for private companies, and in USA private companies own NUCLEAR power plants. I am not talking, that even Google bought license to work in electricity market.

Hospitals and medicine - not pure business. It is a lot also charity, especially for poor people. Education btw the same.

plus, for ISPs, ogero doesn't have real monopoly. They have monopoly over the international links, that's it. when we have 20+ ISPs, i don't see how there's a monopoly.

What does this ISP's worth if there is no international capacity?

battikh

^^ stop using the argument that it sucks BECAUSE it is state owned. Yes, privatization is successful in USA, France, ... but it doesn't mean that the public sector is bad. saying that some cats are white doesn't mean that all cats are white.
Is the electricty sector in France better than in UAE? Are phone calls in france cheaper than in UAE? UAE is doing very well economically (and not only because of oil, oil income in dubai is merely 10% of their total) and EVERYTHING is state owned. using your logic i should use that as an argument to say that lebanon should take over everything, close all ISPs, keep only ogero and do the same with everything else too...

"it's state owned so it's bad", sorry for that, doesn't even qualify as an argument, it is completely irrelevant.
There are many countries in which the public sector is very succesful.
and what applies on france and usa doesn't necessarly apply on lebanon. we are different countries, different culture, different background, different type of economies, different geopolitical situation, difference sources of income, different industries, ... should france apply federalism just because it's good in usa? what applies on one doesn't apply on all. bit of objectivity please and stop blaming everything on "it's owned by the government". fix the government, make it less corrupt, and things will get better without having to privatize everything and anything just because that's what they did in USA or ukraine or whatever.

arithma

Well it does suck. And it is owned by the government. Simple correlation. I don't imply causation.
I wouldn't want to blame the government, but perhaps someone else if in charge would do better.
Mentioning all the facts about the other governments is more irrelevant than the argument said itself.
It does seem however that every ISP is struggling with the lack of coordination: the existing exchange, organization poor infrastructure and efficiency using the available infrastructure and extending the international bandwidth and supplying a competitive service: limited ogero connections..
I am not well informed about the laws surrounding the telecommunication services, but change is definitely needed and welcome - both for the mobile phone, and for the internet services.

battikh

arithma wroteWell it does suck. And it is owned by the government. Simple correlation.

the mitsubishi lancer sucks
the mitsubishi lancer has 4 wheels.
simple correlation...
does the mitsubishi lancer suck because it has 4 wheels? i could even defend this argument by saying that the toyata yaris, which also has 4 wheels sucks too, which proves this point. while the ducati superbike, which has only 2 wheels, is damn awesome. which proves that vehicules with 4 wheels are crap and that the only way to do something awesome is to go 2 wheels.

that's the logic and level of arguments that are being used here (not talking about you specifically, i'm not really following specifically who is saying what)

simple correlation rarely lead you somewhere, try logical correlations instead.

arithma

If you add in to the equation the obvious: the fact that Ogero takes the big shot decisions, and that the fact that what they do affects directly what the situation is, you can see what I mean. You can always be skeptic about everything, but then you'll face being dismissed as a realist. This is WAY off topic, but communication between humans should be based on common knowledge, and we both know when someone controls something it most probably is affected most by them. When there is nothing else to change, you should change the controller (it might not actually improve the situation, but that is the only option you have, aside by keeping the original to which no value is being returned..)
Anyway, you did take things a bit a notch when I specifically said I wasn't deducing anything. I was concentrating on the words: sucks and owned. Owning has much more meaning than having 4 wheels. A conversation really becomes immature when the obvious is questioned.
I would have taken the counter-argument (which I was begging for) that perhaps changing to private ownership wouldn't change the situation.

If you filter things to that narrow a level, perhaps it becomes obvious what the situation is.

All the surrounding countries have very good internet services. Lebanon doesn't have a decent connection.
The internet service here is an orchestration between our connectedness to our surroundings, proper country-wide infrastructure, and proper retail and service distribution. I think Ogero would be most suited only for the "countrywide infrastructure" but other than that, there may be more beneficiary alternatives.

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