pikatore
And guys, with all honesty, we aren't poor, domains aren't expensive, and nuc has already offered a dedicated server. It's not like anything is set in stone when we get a domain. So what, we all blow a buck each if it becomes useless. Just count it as one less beer for the week or something.
pikatore
and @ crazy, we can have a site up before we have a solid plan. the point of the site can change and expand as we develop better ideas on it (not to mention speed up the process, IMO)
battikh
^^ That's a very wrong approach.
People who will visit the site the 1st time wont come back after you do updates and change the site and all if it was not good and interesting the 1st time.
How many times and how often do YOU re-visit websites that you initially found not interesting?
If you want to launch the website to the public, it HAS to be complete and final, otherwise, you'll lose people.
Rushing into it like this, just to say enno hein, 3melna website, is wrong.
pikatore
Launching a site to the public involves more than just getting it online. I have no interest in promoting it anytime soon, as obviously, we haven't fleshed out everything.
We have a problem, and we need a solution. We all know the essence of the problem, but the public doesn't. So from a content perspective, we can start building right away, right now.
I'd rather if we started to take some REAL steps to fight this, steps that involve a bit more than typing ideas in an edit box (as necessary as they are), and I think getting something up there would be a good start. We don't have to make it visible to search engines, or mention it at all to anyone. But having a real, live, ready-to-start solution like that will be incredibly useful, and aid our brainstorming process.
I think it will also be a visible gauge of the progress we are making, a little reminder to everyone here that time is ticking away, while we have all the means we need to kick ass with this.
pikatore
and guys, as for a wiki as crazy suggested, why not? but i don't see why we can't just decide on the domain already, get it up and start building.
the wiki can go up on it too. who knows, it might be handy for public viewing at some point.
J4D
pikatore , your approach is gr8 in my opinion , especially the thing about connecting the blog with twitter and facebook for updates ! that would be super ! go for it ! :)
@all except pikatore : its high-time guys we act we can do the site and keep it private ! until its good enough , we will build on the site , we don't have to write everything twice ! inno don't say no just to say no . lets act ! no offense :)
pikatore
Well, until we get something up and running online, I suppose I'll just use my local server environment to start, and migrate asap.
J4D
cool :) if you need a better version of the logo tell me :)
pikatore
i'll see what i can pull off with the current one.
note: using mediwiki for the wiki engine, we can throw that on a subdomain
J4D
cant wait to see the result :) , i saw your personal site , and all i can say about it is wow ! im sure we will wow on this as well :) GUYS BE POSITIVE !
crazy
Man... what can I say more than what I already said... You're enthusiastic, its good. To be positive, I guess we are. To be realistic on how a project of this size can work, you are not.
I proposed to keep it private, within a ring of specialized people from the legal/economic/technical/maybe other domain, cook up the project and then release it to the public/government etc. I don't think it will work efficiently other than this way. (this is experience talking).
You wana go create a website, put some informations and what-not do it... don't expect it to be clear and structurized if you have 100 peoples giving their opinion on everything.
Keep it simple, keep it private, again within a ring of specialized people, complete the project, make it presentable and then go public with it. You know that Apple took 2 years of research to come out with the Iphone? Do you imagine how many years would've Apple take to come up with the iphone if the research was public?
We're not stopping the project, nor want it to stop, I personally propose this way of doing things, you want to ignore it, be my guest, take it? also, want to change it I don't care.
I won't debate any further on the method you guys want to use.
Crazy
J4D
we are going to keep the site private between us(everybody included) as you suggested and build from there . thanks for the thoughts :) the project is ripe .
pikatore
crazy, we're just talking about getting a site up to work on, nothing more than that, and as well as having the wiki on it too. i don't see how it how it translates to the premature launch of a huge project. your suggestion and what jad and i are going with are perfectly compatible.
We all want something private, no launching of any public stuff till we are sure of it. So how does getting the site prepared go against that?
euryale
@Crazy
why do you make it sound like they are building a nuclear weapon bro? afterall the website is to inform the masses, it can be secret but it doesn't have to be top secret, i think at least community here has the right to know and witness the development of such a nice project. I have been reading alot about the LIX project and the so called Teo and couldn't find his papers, i think an admin should pin the lix project so people here can see what it is. I wish you guys the best of luck but i find it hard believing change will come from informing people the solution and how bad the situation is, nevertheless it's very intresting.
J4D
this is just to inform the public , the plan will be made, its not just for show ! :) and here you go here is the plan
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dg36xxnd_4hg8htrnj
pikatore
Well, euryale, it's the start. None of us have really led an organised political campaign before, but I think that raising awareness is definitely the first step.
euryale
Very nice! ty jad. i really liked the idea of interconnecting lebanon through fiber optics and i was astonished at how low the price was as compared to the millions our politicians snuggle on a daily basis, very sad situation. i still don't understand why ogero refuses to be part of the BIX and why the government doesn't go through with this project, more info on this part would be appreciated. BIX is an amazing step to a more developed country even though it's running at low speeds. From what i assembled until now is that ogero is the government's evil puppet retarding the development of our country in it's egoistic deeds, my proposition is to hit them where it hurts: their pockets, get as much clients to cancel their expensive service by giving them cheaper options with tolerable quality until ogero decides to make a change and rethink their marketing strategies.
nuclearcat
Ogero interested to fill their pockets only. They are also interested to kill all independent business and pwn all ADSL business. In fact they are succeeding in this. Only what is scaring them - international pressure, and even this they will try to cheat at any way.
People selling their freedom for penny. They go from private ISP's to Ogero, because "latency lower", and internet better. Sure they pay for this much more (hidden price by limited traffic, and also this internet funded by taxes and terrible overpriced backbone for private ISP's).
Actually they can't do much, many other ISP's is crap. But some of them relatively good. At least if
ISP is reliable and maybe a bit expensive, going just for less latency and few bucks less per month(if customer use not much) - it is betrayal.
Such people sell their freedom and freedom of your and their kids for just better latency in stupid game or for stupid $5/month. Easy way, heh? At second world war some people was selling for piece of bread their neighbor lives.
Actually i think there is many people in government not so bad, but government cannot be taken as person, it is big and evil machine. It can be classified even as living organism, and citizens of country - feeding it. It is like tiger, if you control it and keep in cage - everything fine, if you give it too much freedom - many will be eaten, crushed, and their bones will be spat away.
As soon as Ogero "finish" major players - say bye-bye to your internet. It will happen like in Iran (same scenario), all independent private ISP's closed, only few pocket ISP's remains, who raise prices immediately. All of them control content and rob users how much they want.
I was living when i was small in such country, Soviet Union... it is something terrible. You think your country rocks, and "West" is so evil. Later you understand that your government lie to you, and rob you, and you deserve much more for your work and much better life (level of technologies, medicine, access to information and etc.).
How to act? Well, the only vector i can see - we need help lebanese to be more technically educated.
Plans about fiber... well, they are too unrealistic. But sure they should be published.
BIX is not core of problem. Just tell me, how you will convience ISP's to connect one to each other?
On my experience, even if you pay tens of thousands for ISP, and let's say you are connected over some DSP, you are stuck. Even DSP is crap and failing - they will prefer to loose you as customer, than provide alternative connectivity. Most of them also technically extremely weak.
Usually they pay millions of USD (instead of keeping them in country and searching local engineers) for big companies, like Cisco, Alcatel, to implement turn key solutions. It works for a while, but later, when everything depends on management, and remote support wont help them much - they start to fail.
There is many things we need to change, and we need to brainstorm this problem, and more important we need more active people. For now only politically active is crazy kids who is burning cars and fighting on street, and they are too dumb to think, and mostly guided by big fat and evil politicans. We need thinking citizens, and if they start to act against liers - "bad asses" in government will start to pee in their pants.
pikatore
Well? We've got a domain name decided? Or at least one to work with for now?
nuclearcat
Today at second half i will get everything...
