Joe
This font is ... how to say this properly ... a nightmare!
J4D
on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:14 AM i sent a message to partnership for lebanon one of the founders of the BIX , to my surprise i got a reply today ! talk about late ! i nearly forgot about the issue !
thats what he said
Hello;
I have received your email, and I am interested in your business plan, can you send me more info, such as location, members already agreed to be part of it, to see the size of this project.
Please note that I am one of the “constructors” of BIX and I am a member of BIX moc.
Regards
Elie Hani
im interrested to continue if anybody joins ? shal i give him more info ?
rolf
What is your business plan?
J4D
there is no business plan ! i clearly told him non profit organization and he is looking into how to make money out of the lix ! outrageous
battikh
business plan is not synonym to making money. even non profit organizations MUST have a business plan. business plans are not about how to make money and profit out of the business.
mir
i think you are talking about an action plan :)
and from the title.. sorry to say guys.. this is a joke
before making the LIX happen , i dare you to get lebgeekers to meet for a coffee only first.
then i dare you to make the ISPs take you seriously or pass their management doors.
a small reminder : Legeekers didn't meet for lebgeeks 5 years anniversary even tho samer was really wanting to do this , for many events that we tried to support , the meeting we had when bashlogic was here included like 5 ppl , 3 or 4 of them are not on lebgeeks a lot... and the last micro meeting was like 3 years ago
so other than the whole idea of the LIX and why ppl will want YOU or LEBGEEKS to do it , and only building a website for a non-prof.. i don't see that happening or helping much
not the friendly reply.. but the truth
J4D
it is the truth indeed , exactly what i had in mind but did not want to say :$ , but what shall someone do ? speaking for my self i cant stay "maktoof al 2aydee"
this thread contains 105 useless posts. lat w 3ajn mitl niswen il forn
FYI all : i sent the email above to that elie hani a long time ago when i had interest in the project . when i received the reply i felt the duty to tell about this , but honestly i no longer have major interest although i would participate in such a thing .
@battikh : i doubt he meant it as you said , although its possible.
Joe
battikh wrotebusiness plan is not synonym to making money. even non profit organizations MUST have a business plan. business plans are not about how to make money and profit out of the business.
For what it's worth, battikh is right. Well, maybe not exactly:
Business plans, should include how to make money, but don't confuse making money with making profit. An NGO can make money in order to cover its financial needs (thus needs a business plan), but cannot legally declare profit.
rolf
mir wrotei think you are talking about an action plan :)
and from the title.. sorry to say guys.. this is a joke
before making the LIX happen , i dare you to get lebgeekers to meet for a coffee only first.
then i dare you to make the ISPs take you seriously or pass their management doors.
a small reminder : Legeekers didn't meet for lebgeeks 5 years anniversary even tho samer was really wanting to do this , for many events that we tried to support , the meeting we had when bashlogic was here included like 5 ppl , 3 or 4 of them are not on lebgeeks a lot... and the last micro meeting was like 3 years ago
so other than the whole idea of the LIX and why ppl will want YOU or LEBGEEKS to do it , and only building a website for a non-prof.. i don't see that happening or helping much
not the friendly reply.. but the truth
I feel concerned...
Sorry for missing the last meeding! I had scheduled it between going to the beach and going out.
I overstayed at the beach.
J4D
okay , so now should I reply to that guy ? if yes what should be said ?
pikatore
i really hope something comes out of this guys.
i'm a westerner, just moved in here, doing web design for some people back in england, but looking to expand to lebanon.
i'm sick of paying through the nose for these shitty Sodetel Bronze cards, and i am so pissed off that the internet is fought over between the ISPs and the government like a pack of wild dogs, when in fact, everyone will prosper with faster speeds, including the ISPs, AND the government! it will open up a whole economical situation that this country has never seen!
i'll follow this forum closely, and provide whatever assistance i can for this. but i've seen internet organised movements rise and fail in weeks. are you guys serious about this?
J4D
hello pikatore ! we are still in the brainstorming period ! we appreciate your help . this topic has been a bit slow but i guess we will work on getting it back on fire :)
nuclearcat
Government doesn't give a shit about internet. They see it only as chicken who lay golden eggs. They don't understand, that any serious business this days not possible without proper internet connection. Internet becoming important as telephone 50 years ago.
Till international bandwidth available only from Ogero and Libantelecom, owned by thugs, you wont see anything good on this market.
Lebanon doesn't have enough talented people to create some group to fight with this situation. For example Lebgeeks mostly very young people, who don't have enough power yet. And who can change, care only about their own asses, and not country, and left for better life in Europe, Gulf, Canada, USA, Australia, and only from there trying to give "recommendations" to their fellow citizens "how to live right", on forums.
WizaRd
I have to agree with nuc on this topic. Couldn't have said it any better.
BashLogic
would it be about time to lock/delete this thread?
J4D
@bash : ouff why !
@nuclear : its either doing something or not doing anything , what would you choose ?
nuclearcat
jadberro - we need at least 20-50 activists who can grab people and act. First - letter of protest to ministry of telecommunications. Second - peaceful protests. Then they will listen. Most probably they will listen only when they will see protesters under their windows. Probably they will be enough smart to answer to official letters (that is numbered in their office). There is a lot of legal ways to reach them.
In fact only who is act, that ISP's owners, who will for sure only care about their own interests. Best we can do, care not only customers interests, but all - interests of customers, government, ISP's, businesses. If we can give some reasonable proposal, they will not be able to refuse it. Otherwise we will put banners everywhere that this person (name of his party and his name) is refusing reasonable offers to improve country and keeping his own interests higher, that country interests. Let's see what he will do on next elections. Gebran Bassil good example of such looser, they only what gave him a little bit power - his "daddy in law", who lost because of him also a lot of supporters. Next elections, if everything will go smooth will be big hit for him.
You have to make them understand, that they don't have golden balls, and they depend on their electorate. And it is time to change election system of Lebanon - "give bunch a promises, win, then do what u want".
I am foreigner, and i don't have moral (and probably legal) right to interfere with politics in this country. I can help only as "technical" person or consultant. The second i will head people or even stay inside group on protest action - they will just kick me out of country.
There is another vector of action - customer rights. We find way to force ISP's to provide what they promiss, and they will be clamped between customer rights protection and Ogero inefficiency, and will be forced also to find solution to improve Ogero. Only what we need for that - teach customers how to reveal ISP lies and how to sue ISP.
pikatore
On that note, I can provide whatever assistance I can, but I am obviously a foreigner, and as such can't directly participate in this, but my skills are yours. Let's hope that something gets kicked up.
Posters! Go over to AUB and the other universities and hand out fliers! Students are a powerful source of support. Set up a site dedicated to pointing out the lies the government is putting out there, showing how unfair Ogero's monopoly is, showing how shit Lebanon has it compared to other countries and how it shouldn't be this way.
You all have all the time in the world! It's ironic, we are all enthusiasts/experts in the latest and most powerful form of communication medium humanity has ever made. From your own chairs you can gather plenty of support via the internet. I dunno, this whole thing is in our element, it should be something we can whip up support for without even thinking about it!
xterm
nuclearcat wroteThere is another vector of action - customer rights. We find way to force ISP's to provide what they promiss, and they will be clamped between customer rights protection and Ogero inefficiency, and will be forced also to find solution to improve Ogero. Only what we need for that - teach customers how to reveal ISP lies and how to sue ISP.
Aren't ISPs suffering just as much as their customers? it's the ISPs that should be standing in the line of fire. Then again, If you're making so much money why bother? ISPs are as much to blame as Ogero.
nuclearcat
ISP's? You don't have ISP with face, all of them just bunch of managers and engineers who is getting salary and not very interested to mess up with government. Most of people care to get salary, and solve their problems, in their small world, failed cable, malfunctioning router... they will go and nag in ministry to get at least some piece of backbone, but they are not interested in radical changes, and i think even more - scared. Because if internet in Lebanon will get significant boost - their indecent "internal" backbone will crack.
Even VISP, to make company with face will be hard, but possible. Face in my meaning it is when ISP have human interests and interested in improving country, not only our own pocket.
We try to change situation(free hotspots, innovative technologies(opensource), free internet for some government agencies, discounts for educational organisations, free dialup) and got hit by competitors and government.
Crowd hate someone that is not staying in herd.
Noone stand with us against this hit, more than that, everybody start to spit on us. Alone we cannot resist one more hit, sorry.
