teodorgeorgiev
I am not defending any days. You have to consider that I by myself am an Internet user/consumer as well.
Excuse me, are you sure that you are my teacher? In marketing?
You can not be strong in marketing, if your technical level is so low as yours really is (my words below will prove it).
Could you shortlist your 10 years experience? Where have you been working? Please, do not tell me that you have 10 years user experience, because you will make me laughing. For your own opinion, I have started working with computers and telecommunications back in 1987 (yes, not a mistake, when I was 8 years old), working how to program in Fortran and Assembler on c6502 and CM-601 computers and studying on maintaining Strowger and Crossbar phone switches at the PTT.
So, let me know your experience... In which field?
What do you know is only from the user side. Do you know how much costs an international leased line? --> NO
Do you know what kind of equipment is needed to start a middle size ISP (3 x 30 dial-up ports, leased line and cable)? Do you know how much the equipment costs, which brand exactly to buy and where to buy it at an affordable price --> NO!!!
So go sell that bu*sh*t with the experience of yours to someone else. Preferable to "Sukleen" people :D
I will tell you some things which differ.
1. There is a company in France with the name of "Alcatel". Suprisingly for you, this company produces a lot of telecom equipment, including - phone switches, mobile phones, DSL multiplexers, DSL modems (end user devices).
So, guess how much is the price for the DSL multiplexer and the DSL modems, when Alcatel are selling them to the FT or other french ISPs and then guess how much the price differs for other customers (like some lebanese or any other ISP) to purchase it from Alcatel (or someone else) and to deliver it to Lebanon.
2. You are comparing the price of the "ADSL 20Mbps" for $30 and the other for 512Kbps for $300. Let me tell you know how foolish you look in your calculations. First, do you really think that the ADSL gives you 20MBps speed? The answer is NO! Ok, ADSL2+ gives you 20Mbps, BUT... ...
20Mbps DOWNLOAD speed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
ONLY DOWNLOAD.
That is because ADSL is an acronym of (Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line). Pay attention to the word "Asymmetric".
So, dear "marketing experienced" teacher, do you think you will be able with the ADSL to make 20Mbps upload? The answer is - NO !!!
But there is no way for you to know that with your "10 years of marketing experience" (maybe in selling pizzas, fruits, shoes or fish).
The maximum upload speed of the ADSL2+ is 1.2Mbps. Never in the "ad" of those URLs they noticed how fast is the upload speed. But this is nothing, compared to your 10 years marketing experience...
3. Does any of those ADSL providers guarantee you that you will get those 20Mbps permanently all the time? Or at least 90% of the time?
The asnwer is - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!! This is maximum speed, and when you will get it and how frequently are you going to get it is quite another story, which can not fit into your 10 years marketing experienced mind...
So, start distinguishing between full-duplex speed and asymmetric speed.
Also, between maximum speed and guaranteed/dedicated speed.
Why dont' you tell to all us here what is your business indeed and at what prices do you sell your products/services, so we will compare them with the rest of the world? Shall you do it? If not - do not waste people's time.
rolf
teodorgeorgiev I'm not discussing on your claims about european ADSL. You may be right I dont know.
I just had the impression that you were somehow defending what we have in lebanon
When I was over there they'd get 275 KB/s all the time on the DSL.
I dont know about that 5mbits connection though. But I dont think they'd somehow scr** you on that.
rolf
So, dear "marketing experienced" teacher, do you think you will be able with the ADSL to make 20Mbps upload? The answer is - NO !!!
Yeah well back here they give us 32 kbits upload, nothing more. That's not upload that BS. Even in egypt they have 1/4 ratios and optionnal 1/2 ratioss.
teodorgeorgiev
275KB per second is about 2.2Mbps.
But not 20Mbps. The guy was bragging on how they give you in France 20Mbps for about 40EUR (or sort of, I do not remember exactly).
What you have in Lebanon is not that bad, comparing to 100 other countries.
But you are looking only at the Internet.
Lets see how expensive are let say the fruits in France, how expensive is the monthly fee for an apartment, or how expensive is the gasoline... Or even the ticket at the public transportation system (bus, subway and etc).
teodorgeorgiev
Rolf, even without the 10 years marketing experience (as the other guy here), a lot of people will tell you that on the marketing field "what you see" (or what they promise you) is not always what you really get :)
Specially when the source of the information is an egyptian web site 8)
I can promise you sooo much also :D
mountains of gold.
P.S. I have been dealing with Egyptians in one of my past job (in a large satellite operator - no names though, those who know it - they know it),
the way they cheat can not be described with human words :D
Stay cool :)
teodorgeorgiev
rolf
Sorry in my previous post when I mentionned "there" I meant canada (I think you understood france).
I'm not sure what pack my canadian friend was paying to get his 275KB/s but it doesnt matter, the quality of the internet was just amazing. You're NEVER short of bandwith, even when uploading and latency is hardly noticeable.
Whatever you think of works: download DVDs, watch hi-res online TV, play online games as if you were on a LAN.... hi-quality video conferencing... PC remote control.... whatever you think of, it works flawlessly.
The internet just WORKS, you know like the phone, TV... back here... you know when you pick up the phone you never ask yourself if the phone will work... you know it always works... well over there the internet is like this, you never ask yourself if you have enough bandwidth, or sufficient latency.... whatever you decide to do online it will work.
vegeta
Ya teodor ma ba3ref chou,all you can say is bad words about everyone here daring open their mouse because you think you are the master of knowledge,walla chou hel genie enta!
I doubt you have worked in a company more than 10 days because with your lack of knowledge you can't go anywhere.
Yes I am a teacher in marketing but I will never take you as my student because you are too proud of yourself and too fool to understand anything.
you just talk like a child of about 10 years and pretend to know something about internet.
also I have a mcse graduation just to have more knowledge in my field,but no mcse is too poor for you perhaps?
ah yes I forgot monsieur is God in person,please applause him
teodorgeorgiev
If you want, come in public and I will check your knowledge you should have with this MCSE :)
For the companies I have been working at, you can check Google.
For my (lack) of knowledge, go here:
http://forums.cisco.com/eforum/servlet/NetProf?page=netprof&forum=Service%20Providers&topic=Voice%20over%20IP&CommCmd=MB%3Fcmd%3Ddisplay_messages%26mode%3Dnew%26location%3D.ee8f891
This is the Cisco official forum. Check the Network Professionals rating.
As you see, I am on the first place with 57 points :)
Btw, I am a CCNA + CIPT + CCAI (Cisco Certified Academy Instructor, a person who trains people to become CCNA).
Instead of "doubting", you might check it (if you have the brain to do it).
Btw, you still did not tell me where is your business and experience in ?
Till you do not tell me, I will refrain from replying to your person :)
Lets fight with facts, not with empty words.
teodorgeorgiev
:D
rolf
Btw, I am a CCNA + CIPT + CCAI (Cisco Certified Academy Instructor, a person who trains people to become CCNA).
how much time didi it take you?
rolf
Oh I know globalproof, that's what all the cable providers use.
So you're in lebanon? Enjoying it?
BTW do globalproof have anything interesting for home/small businesse?
teodorgeorgiev
Did take what ?
The CCNA?
Well, my story is too different. I was working with Cisco for about 3 years... Without any certificate. Then the ISP manager told me one day: "Teodor, why don't you go and apply for the CCNA. We must have someone with a paper, I know it does not mean too much for anyone here, but for the big customers it does mean something".
So, I just spent 2-3 days reading on the Cisco exam and went through (967 points of 1000 for 22minutes).
Indeed, it takes about 9 months to "produce" a real CCNA.
But a lot of people take their CCNA exams by using "braindumps".
You can see on the Cisco forum how I answer to stupid questions given even by CCIEs... The certificate indeeds, gives a little.
At my courses, I saw many people who were coming to take CCNA just because they have heard that with CCNA you might go for a job in USA and Canada... When I was telling them the truth, that the CCNA certificate does NOT give a job, it is the knowlegde behind the certificated that does indeed give the job, 1/3 of those people stopped to attend the "classes".
Other people attend the classes just because they were sent by their managers so they have good time escaping their workplace.
At the end, if you find 3 people in the whole class, who have come to really with the intention to learn, you are happy... ...
Yes, I am at GlobalProof, but they fire me on each 10 minutes... Ask the guy with the 10 years marketing experience, why :D
Yes, GlobalProof does have, though we avoid selling directly to home customers :(
What we prepare now are real static IPs at much cheaper price, than others (what IDM and others do is a robbery)...
That is my personal opinion of course, not of the company...
rolf
I'm personally looking for a job that would make me travel... maybe with a big ISP?
I have no papers at all, still preparing my Bachelor degree. But I have good knowledge in networking including Linux.
As for your services is it possible to get 2 way internet for a small business under 300$?
Thanks :D
vegeta
chou baddak fi man,kezzeb mich cheyef?
Ana kamena finé ekhod esm ma3rouf men google ou a3mel halé aflaton.
Kil chi baddo ya3mel anno baddo y defe3 a3n cherkto el haramiyé virtual isp,ou a3m bi jenn la anno IDM arkhass menno :)
Ma ta3ti wej,heyda walad a3m y stelemak
rolf
I had a little discussion with my idm 128k distributor
ADSL will be available in Beirut beginning 1st November 2005
He signed a contract with ogero
Connection speed will be a standart 2mb/s !!! means 256kb/s download,16x more than the actual 128k connection
BUT YOU NEED 4 clients per building for seting up because it will cost them 600$ of hardware per building ,I didn't understood if it will be an adsl to network card adapter or not(adsl modems are very costy)
What is this "per building" BS? ADSL does not work like this: you have a phone line and the phone company switches it to digital and gives you an ADSL modem. It has nothing to do with the building.
rolf
chou baddak fi man,kezzeb mich cheyef?
Ana kamena finé ekhod esm ma3rouf men google ou a3mel halé aflaton.
Kil chi baddo ya3mel anno baddo y defe3 a3n cherkto el haramiyé virtual isp,ou a3m bi jenn la anno IDM arkhass menno :)
Ma ta3ti wej,heyda walad a3m y stelemak
VISP have about 4000 IPs
IDM have 35000 IPs
vegeta
Wifi also should work without...wires,but here in Lebanon isps talked about giving you wifi connection via cables! 1 year after they changed the name into broadband :)
Now what they are trying to do per building is to permut adsl signal into lan cables,it's not so bad because you will save some bucks on adsl modem(100$).
I talked to visp and they are doing the same thing but much more priced.
If you have already a ''broadband'' connection ,just talk to the guy responsible of the cables,he will be the better one to give you the idm adsl
rolf
Now what they are trying to do per building is to permut adsl signal into lan cables
My god when are they going to do something properly in this country?
Bass dear vegeta something does not stick... you said 600$ per building? For what? I mean if the modem costs 100$ and a switch 40$, what is the rest for?
teodorgeorgiev
Rolf, if we are talking about DSL here, calculate also the phone line between the ISP and the building.