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kareem_nasser wrote
Kareem wrote
VincentKeyboard wrote I haven't seen a country hate its own currency like this before. How about just make 1 USD = 1 million Lebanese Lira by January?
It's not that we hate our own currency. In fact it's quite the opposite... We don't trust the system, we don't trust the politicians and we the level of corruption in this country has hit a new record. We're living in doubts and fear.
To a certain extent Vincent is right, we understand the need for dollar but why do rents get paid in dollar even contractually? Tell me, is there something those landlords import?
I use US dollars too. I just bought computer replacement parts for a 100 USD bill which the sales person smiled over. But really, some stuff should not depend on the dollar value. Items made from primary resources forged locally should not be affected. What do we gain from doubling the price of everything and doubling the dollar value? Nothing but inflation as Nuclearcat pointed out earlier in this thread.
VincentKeyboard wrote
kareem_nasser wrote
Kareem wrote
It's not that we hate our own currency. In fact it's quite the opposite... We don't trust the system, we don't trust the politicians and we the level of corruption in this country has hit a new record. We're living in doubts and fear.
To a certain extent Vincent is right, we understand the need for dollar but why do rents get paid in dollar even contractually? Tell me, is there something those landlords import?
I use US dollars too. I just bought computer replacement parts for a 100 USD bill which the sales person smiled over. But really, some stuff should not depend on the dollar value. Items made from primary resources forged locally should not be affected. What do we gain from doubling the price of everything and doubling the dollar value? Nothing but inflation as Nuclearcat pointed out earlier in this thread.
As I said earlier, the circulating currency should be LBP only. Regarding the price increase, we don't have primary resources. Literally everything is imported. Steel, wood, wheat, plastic, fuel, oil, gas, pesticides, rice, sugar... you want me to continue ? the list is endless.

We f**ing import electricity what else can you imagine ?
Kareem wrote
VincentKeyboard wrote
kareem_nasser wrote
To a certain extent Vincent is right, we understand the need for dollar but why do rents get paid in dollar even contractually? Tell me, is there something those landlords import?
I use US dollars too. I just bought computer replacement parts for a 100 USD bill which the sales person smiled over. But really, some stuff should not depend on the dollar value. Items made from primary resources forged locally should not be affected. What do we gain from doubling the price of everything and doubling the dollar value? Nothing but inflation as Nuclearcat pointed out earlier in this thread.
As I said earlier, the circulating currency should be LBP only. Regarding the price increase, we don't have primary resources. Literally everything is imported. Steel, wood, wheat, plastic, fuel, oil, gas, pesticides, rice, sugar... you want me to continue ? the list is endless.

We f**ing import electricity what else can you imagine ?

Being as greedy as we are (by purposely converting currency to gain some LL for example), no one of those businessmen, capitalists, politicians... whatever, wants to cut his or her personal gain. :)


We had good amount of time since 1990 to build a more sustainable economy but nope. Faster gains and profits is better.
kareem_nasser wrote
Kareem wrote
VincentKeyboard wrote
I use US dollars too. I just bought computer replacement parts for a 100 USD bill which the sales person smiled over. But really, some stuff should not depend on the dollar value. Items made from primary resources forged locally should not be affected. What do we gain from doubling the price of everything and doubling the dollar value? Nothing but inflation as Nuclearcat pointed out earlier in this thread.
As I said earlier, the circulating currency should be LBP only. Regarding the price increase, we don't have primary resources. Literally everything is imported. Steel, wood, wheat, plastic, fuel, oil, gas, pesticides, rice, sugar... you want me to continue ? the list is endless.

We f**ing import electricity what else can you imagine ?

Being as greedy as we are (by purposely converting currency to gain some LL for example), no one of those businessmen, capitalists, politicians... whatever, wants to cut his or her personal gain. :)


We had good amount of time since 1990 to build a more sustainable economy but nope. Faster gains and profits is better.
Are you saying that people who are converting USD to LBP at 2,000 on black market are greedy?
The black market IS the real market (supply and demand) price of LBP, and not the 1500 fixed Bank price.
sero wrote
Are you saying that people who are converting USD to LBP at 2,000 on black market are greedy?
The black market IS the real market (supply and demand) price of LBP, and not the 1500 fixed Bank price.
First of all, 1500 is the official price. Is that not how centralized currency works? Market price for currency is applicable in decentralized currencies such as bitcoins.
Second of all, I wouldn't say greedy. People are looking after themselves and you cannot blame them for that. Salaries in USD are half what they used to be three years ago and prices are higher. This needs to be fixed by the government so people don't need the extra 500LL. This is the government's fault.
I knew someone who worked in support for an IT company earning 1000 USD a month handling over a quarter of the accounts. They didn't renew his contract and hired someone to do the same task fro 600 USD.
kareem_nasser wrote
Being as greedy as we are (by purposely converting currency to gain some LL for example), no one of those businessmen, capitalists, politicians... whatever, wants to cut his or her personal gain. :)


We had good amount of time since 1990 to build a more sustainable economy but nope. Faster gains and profits is better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
Kareem wrote
Yes but as far as I know, Orascom and Zain are managing companies. They can't decide anything financially without the approval of the ministry of telecom.

They were complaining that Choukair wasn't approving the annual bonus and promotions. So technically speaking, it's the government money and it's one of the reasons why the government isn't accepting the privatization of the telecom sector.

But in my opinion, every onshore company, international or not since it's anyway registered in Lebanon, should be paying employees in LBP. The circulating currency should be LBP just like any decent country.

If you want to import, you have a business account, your bank or BDL can help you exchange at the official rate and that's it.

In Europe mainly, I can't pay in USD. They will simply ask you to exchange it and come back.

Think of it. Why would need the dollar in Lebanon? travel ? OK I can travel if I have a credit card what else ?
The economy needs to be changed and there must be plan on how not make it worse. $ or LBP we all want to live a decent life and make it a good life for our children. However, we are discussing on small amounts the salaries of the employees that will be in max amount of 3 or 4 million dollars in total per year, the country is bankrupt in billions where did that amount comes from ? who let this happen ? my point is none of what we are talking is the problem or an issue. The telecom sector is in the top 5 where the government rely on to receive dollars and lbp. The system needs a format from the top to the bottom. We need people in leadership that can be trusted and one army only!
Hey people, I am selling a BMW M5, new, never used.
The price is 150 000 Lebanese Lira.
But I do not have it now. I will tell you when I have th car, maybe tomorrow, maybe next year, maybe in 50 years or more.
But anyway the price is 150 000 LBP non-negotiable.
Lebanese people forgot the basics of economics, that money is a means to an end, not the end itself. Money is supposed to facilitate you working and trading your labor for someone else's labor.

Somehow in Lebanon we built a system where we have close to a million government employees and army personnel most of whom do not work, they sit in their governmental buildings collecting paychecks, our army is larger than the German army, the rest of the employees could have been replaced by a software. Anyway, millions get paid for nothing, then you have people with money in the banks, collecting interest, thinking it is their right to collect money for free. And we ended up with a country that does not work and imports everything.

Point is, the lira is useless because we do not produce anything locally. Not because we are not patriotic, the US dollar is not stronger because Americans are more patriotic, it's not a feeling. What we need now is to produce, people with farm lands need to try and grow food the most efficient way possible, people with skills need to find something to do. Work for free, it does not matter, what matters is to start something. But we also need to remove this corrupt government otherwise they will send the police on you for working without a license! along with extortion and bribery...
IBL decreased their daily withdraws from international ATMs to $150/day. What a joke!
Iam following the Turkish way ( easy access) ,taking LBP ~ 10,000,000 LBP / Person distributed on 3 persons ( 30,000,000 LBP) and transfering the LBP to USD there ( I know two exchangers at Istanbul who take LBP). The rate there is @ 1520 , in correlation of the BDL USD to LBP rate , since there is no official devaluation of the currency only black market demand/supply valuation. Way two if they disagreed there to exchange to USD (They sometimes do that) , they accept LBP to Turkish , got the Turkish Lira here and exchange it to USD. A win - win situation that is working with me without the black market devaluation.
Nice one Tech, but why not 15,000,000? as you can take $10K with you?

Can you share the exchange offices there?
Tech Guru wroteIam following the Turkish way ( easy access) ,taking LBP ~ 10,000,000 LBP / Person distributed on 3 persons ( 30,000,000 LBP) and transfering the LBP to USD there ( I know two exchangers at Istanbul who take LBP). The rate there is @ 1520 , in correlation of the BDL USD to LBP rate , since there is no official devaluation of the currency only black market demand/supply valuation. Way two if they disagreed there to exchange to USD (They sometimes do that) , they accept LBP to Turkish , got the Turkish Lira here and exchange it to USD. A win - win situation that is working with me without the black market devaluation.
And why not make money out of this cycle ?
Rate is 1495 in Turkey. People are shoving money down their pants and going there.
chosen2k wroteRate is 1495 in Turkey. People are shoving money down their pants and going there.
Where is this ? my friend was yesterday there and the rate was 2800
nosense wrote
chosen2k wroteRate is 1495 in Turkey. People are shoving money down their pants and going there.
Where is this ? my friend was yesterday there and the rate was 2800
Yeah that's what I was wondering lol... I had it confirmed by multiple sources that the rate in Istanbul is even higher than Beirut.
Kareem wrote
nosense wrote
chosen2k wroteRate is 1495 in Turkey. People are shoving money down their pants and going there.
Where is this ? my friend was yesterday there and the rate was 2800
Yeah that's what I was wondering lol... I had it confirmed by multiple sources that the rate in Istanbul is even higher than Beirut.
Makes sense. I guess the exchanger tech guru was talking about, was not up to date with the situation, and will probably have to pay the loss out of pocket.
I have a feeling there is something fishy happening involving turkey.
The dual exchange rate is not good
Just sold USD @ 2000LL in Jounieh