I'm using electric cables like the one in the pictures of Raficoo for phone and dsl, why is it bad? My snr margin is above 6db but getting lots of CRC after the upgrade from 1Mbps to 4Mbps, does changing it to CAT6 fix this problem?H.S wroteThe phone box is pretty messed up. As shown in this picture "https://ibb.co/cbTCja" it is so unprofessional and badly installed, they are not even wrapped with electrical tape. Are they out in the open and prone to rain? Where is the cover for the box? they must be corroded by now. Those blue and red cables are probably electrical cables installed between Ogero's punched down phone cables and the the ones going to the house. The right way to install them is to connect the punched down (thinner/colored) cables, and connect them directly to the cable going up to the house using scotchloks, they are filled with gel to prevent corrosion.
@nuclearcat, modems won't get fried from lightning, there is a ground cable especially installed to prevent such thing, like the black cable showing in this picture " http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h415/Sasukiii/phone%20box.jpg" however lightning can cause fluctuation in SNR, can be kept to bare minimum when syncing to ADSL2/2+.
As suggested, do the test directly from the phone box first, you can connect the phone cable directly to a phone junction box (that also answers your question about how to transform an RJ-45 connector to RJ-11) the junction box has an RJ-11 output. Bring your UPS, modem, laptop near Ogero's phone box and do the test.
I would still recommend changing the cable even if you don't get a significant improvement, especially if you want to rely on copper for years to come because: A- the setup is badly installed, B- the cable category isn't ideal for ADSL usage, this is a regular power cable. Don't get any cheap cable that is branded CAT5e or CAT6. I recommend a CAT6 over a CAT5e because it has more twists per inch which can further decrease noise. Get a solid cable, avoid stranded ones. There are three good brands that you can find here, 3M, D-Link and DINTEK. I got a sample of a cheap CAT6 cable, it is barely twisted and the conductors are oddly thin. For the junction box, there is a specific type that is available here, I used to have a different one which gave a bad SNR due to thin copper connectors. Also a high quality phone cable (the one connecting the junction box to the modem) can also help. I have two high quality ones, but for some reason, one give a higher (+1dB) SNR than the other.
How to improve my connection's stats? (SNR margin)
Morning guys, I have been recommended the following by someone who is very well informed and knowledgeable:
As most of my cabling is run outside the building (from the connection box to my house through the balcony) and since there are lots of electrical cables around, I was recommended to use the black copper pair of cables (over the cat6 or 7) as it is "resistant to weather and some interference to some point"; also "Its plastic coating is thick enough to resude electrical interference".
This is different than what most of you are recommending so what do you guys think? If I were to rewire the cables to my house would I be better off using the black copper cable? Also if I managed to change the path of the wires to stay MOSTLY within the building (only a small portion outside), would your recommendation become different? Cat 6/7 over copper cables ?
As most of my cabling is run outside the building (from the connection box to my house through the balcony) and since there are lots of electrical cables around, I was recommended to use the black copper pair of cables (over the cat6 or 7) as it is "resistant to weather and some interference to some point"; also "Its plastic coating is thick enough to resude electrical interference".
This is different than what most of you are recommending so what do you guys think? If I were to rewire the cables to my house would I be better off using the black copper cable? Also if I managed to change the path of the wires to stay MOSTLY within the building (only a small portion outside), would your recommendation become different? Cat 6/7 over copper cables ?
Outdoor, UV resistant cat5/6/7 exist too.
"Black" wire means nothing, it stupid advice, sorry. Especially stupid is about "some interference". Interference resistance is dependent on shielding and cable pair twisting. As said before - using shield is not easy thing, even with grounding ,there is many details, so you can avoid it, but as DSL signal is not Khz, but still below 10Mhz, any twisted pair(even cat3) with proper wire gauge and material (should be pure copper) is suitable. using regular, non-twisted cable is not recommended.
P.S. About plastic coating thick enough to resude interference - it shows person is completely illiterate in properties of electrical signalling, and he dont even know how things work.
About outdoor resistance, everything depends on insulation, or cable jacket material - it should be outdoor type and UV resistant. You need to ask cable details, if you care about that, and yes thats one more reason to not run cable outside building (UV resistance limits cable choice a lot). But technically your cable may survive year or two outside.
Outdoor, uv resistant in any case will be much more expensive than normal cable with proper insulation.
"Black" wire means nothing, it stupid advice, sorry. Especially stupid is about "some interference". Interference resistance is dependent on shielding and cable pair twisting. As said before - using shield is not easy thing, even with grounding ,there is many details, so you can avoid it, but as DSL signal is not Khz, but still below 10Mhz, any twisted pair(even cat3) with proper wire gauge and material (should be pure copper) is suitable. using regular, non-twisted cable is not recommended.
P.S. About plastic coating thick enough to resude interference - it shows person is completely illiterate in properties of electrical signalling, and he dont even know how things work.
About outdoor resistance, everything depends on insulation, or cable jacket material - it should be outdoor type and UV resistant. You need to ask cable details, if you care about that, and yes thats one more reason to not run cable outside building (UV resistance limits cable choice a lot). But technically your cable may survive year or two outside.
Outdoor, uv resistant in any case will be much more expensive than normal cable with proper insulation.
- Edited
cat6 for outdoor is extremely expensive, do you think regular good quality cat6 would be ok for outside wiring ? Like D-Link as H.S suggested ?nuclearcat wroteOutdoor, UV resistant cat5/6/7 exist too.
"Black" wire means nothing, it stupid advice, sorry. Especially stupid is about "some interference". Interference resistance is dependent on shielding and cable pair twisting. As said before - using shield is not easy thing, even with grounding ,there is many details, so you can avoid it, but as DSL signal is not Khz, but still below 10Mhz, any twisted pair(even cat3) with proper wire gauge and material (should be pure copper) is suitable. using regular, non-twisted cable is not recommended.
P.S. About plastic coating thick enough to resude interference - it shows person is completely illiterate in properties of electrical signalling, and he dont even know how things work.
About outdoor resistance, everything depends on insulation, or cable jacket material - it should be outdoor type and UV resistant. You need to ask cable details, if you care about that, and yes thats one more reason to not run cable outside building (UV resistance limits cable choice a lot). But technically your cable may survive year or two outside.
Outdoor, uv resistant in any case will be much more expensive than normal cable with proper insulation.
- Edited
Hmm to tell you the truth I was not very convinced that copper wires (no matter how thick they were especially that they are not twisted) would be better than cat5/6/7. That's why I asked since you seem more knowledgeable in this field than I am (I read your article). So thank you for clarifying.nuclearcat wroteOutdoor, UV resistant cat5/6/7 exist too.
"Black" wire means nothing, it stupid advice, sorry. Especially stupid is about "some interference". Interference resistance is dependent on shielding and cable pair twisting. As said before - using shield is not easy thing, even with grounding ,there is many details, so you can avoid it, but as DSL signal is not Khz, but still below 10Mhz, any twisted pair(even cat3) with proper wire gauge and material (should be pure copper) is suitable. using regular, non-twisted cable is not recommended.
P.S. About plastic coating thick enough to resude interference - it shows person is completely illiterate in properties of electrical signalling, and he dont even know how things work.
About outdoor resistance, everything depends on insulation, or cable jacket material - it should be outdoor type and UV resistant. You need to ask cable details, if you care about that, and yes thats one more reason to not run cable outside building (UV resistance limits cable choice a lot). But technically your cable may survive year or two outside.
Outdoor, uv resistant in any case will be much more expensive than normal cable with proper insulation.
I have another question, if I may ask:
Supposing you could get any of the cables from the list below (and supposing money was not an issue), what would you choose and why?
If it is case dependent and you cannot give a general answer, I can email you a pdf file showing the wiring in my building (it might be of help to you with your article about bad wiring).
Thank you in advance.
They are not bad per-se, to get the most out of a DSL line, using a twisted pair is highly recommended for optimal performance and decreasing noise as much as possible. Having high CRC count might not be from the cable or from your end. The upgrade is still new and still in the adjusting phase, so it might get better in the upcoming days.jazzzar wrote I'm using electric cables like the one in the pictures of Raficoo for phone and dsl, why is it bad? My snr margin is above 6db but getting lots of CRC after the upgrade from 1Mbps to 4Mbps, does changing it to CAT6 fix this problem?
For those who are worried about the cable surviving outdoors, you can install the cable inside an electrical tube. There are thin/gray electrical tubes and they're cheap. I installed the exposed part (which is at the roof) inside one of these tubes and it is perfectly protecting the cable from sunlight.
The biggest problem is to analyse how much wiring affecting your connection. Easiest way, by hooking modem directly to box.
Best - by detaching wire from telephone box, checking impedance, hooking oscilloscope/spectrum analyzer to check the noise and TDR to check cabling.
And full line testing guide is like this: http://media.klinkmann.lv/pdf/lv/exfo/Exfo_Local-Loop_and_DSL_Testing_Reference_Guide.pdf
Regarding cable, i believe CAT3 is fine, DSL frequencies is well below it's limits. In your case first one (and i believe cheapest) 2 PR (2 pairs), but nothing stated there about UV resistance and etc.
Using non-outdoor cable for outdoor installation is just render cabling having short time and degradation of cable parameters after while, depends how much it is exposed to sun. As a hack, at least to hide it from UV you can put a cable inside some UV resistant flexible pipe/conduit.
Best - by detaching wire from telephone box, checking impedance, hooking oscilloscope/spectrum analyzer to check the noise and TDR to check cabling.
And full line testing guide is like this: http://media.klinkmann.lv/pdf/lv/exfo/Exfo_Local-Loop_and_DSL_Testing_Reference_Guide.pdf
Regarding cable, i believe CAT3 is fine, DSL frequencies is well below it's limits. In your case first one (and i believe cheapest) 2 PR (2 pairs), but nothing stated there about UV resistance and etc.
Using non-outdoor cable for outdoor installation is just render cabling having short time and degradation of cable parameters after while, depends how much it is exposed to sun. As a hack, at least to hide it from UV you can put a cable inside some UV resistant flexible pipe/conduit.
- Edited
So I had a technician at my house a few minutes ago to take care of rewiring my cables from the connectivity box downstairs to my house. I have 3 points to discuss/inquire about:
He first measured the voltage of the phone cable once it reaches the house. The value turned out to be 55V and there was no noise when he picked up the phone. So he said that my wiring is very good and there is no need to do anything. Could someone with some knowledge in this field elaborate whether this is true or not based on the voltage value he got ?
Anyways I told him that I don't mind rewiring as the worst that could happen is for line quality to remain the same. So He recommended using a cat5e F/UTP cable since cat6 is not worth the increase in price for my case (note that most of the wiring will be outdoors and in some cases passing near electrical wires). Now despite telling him that I read that these kind of cables need to be grounded or else they would do more harm than good. He insisted that this is true for STP cables only and not FTP. I am personally not convinced by what he said but again, can someone elaborate on the accuracy of that?
Another point I'd like to discuss is that every time I asked him to try to decide on another path to avoid passing near electric wires (I was considering going internally instead of outdoors), he would say that they won't cause any issue since they won't be passing in parallel for a long distance and that the foil will help minimize their interference. He would also say the usual: this is bad for house asthetics since I live in a 70 year old house so all of the wiring is visible (not hidden inside the wall or something)
He first measured the voltage of the phone cable once it reaches the house. The value turned out to be 55V and there was no noise when he picked up the phone. So he said that my wiring is very good and there is no need to do anything. Could someone with some knowledge in this field elaborate whether this is true or not based on the voltage value he got ?
Anyways I told him that I don't mind rewiring as the worst that could happen is for line quality to remain the same. So He recommended using a cat5e F/UTP cable since cat6 is not worth the increase in price for my case (note that most of the wiring will be outdoors and in some cases passing near electrical wires). Now despite telling him that I read that these kind of cables need to be grounded or else they would do more harm than good. He insisted that this is true for STP cables only and not FTP. I am personally not convinced by what he said but again, can someone elaborate on the accuracy of that?
Another point I'd like to discuss is that every time I asked him to try to decide on another path to avoid passing near electric wires (I was considering going internally instead of outdoors), he would say that they won't cause any issue since they won't be passing in parallel for a long distance and that the foil will help minimize their interference. He would also say the usual: this is bad for house asthetics since I live in a 70 year old house so all of the wiring is visible (not hidden inside the wall or something)
so should we get utp, ftp, or sftp cables for outdoor installation ? I plan to just throw the cable all the way down from my balcony to the telephone box, I live on the 10th floor.
Not sure if measuring voltages can tell the effect of an electrical interference, when there is an electrical interference the voltage could increase and not decrease because the magnetic field will be translated into power inside the copper line, as you know the internet carried over the analog phone cable is modulated (hence why we call the device Modem: Modulator - Demodulator), so the modulated binary data over the phone line will get modified by interference and they will became altered data that can't be corrected to their original form, a small checksum is used to validate each received data and in case of error the source will be requested to resend this segment
bumpaliessayli2 wroteso should we get utp, ftp, or sftp cables for outdoor installation ? I plan to just throw the cable all the way down from my balcony to the telephone box, I live on the 10th floor.
@nuclearcat I appreciate it if you can help me out.
2 years later
Hi guys,
So any update? Which cables you found to be the best to put outdoor ?
So any update? Which cables you found to be the best to put outdoor ?
Personally I am using STP Cat7 which was unnecessary, a normal UTP would have done the job well
Note: using 1 pair only from the available 4 pairs
Note: using 1 pair only from the available 4 pairs
What brand are you using ?anayman_k7 wrotePersonally I am using STP Cat7 which was unnecessary, a normal UTP would have done the job well
Note: using 1 pair only from the available 4 pairs
And is STP grounded ?