• Networking

  • Best internet solution for a new gaming lounge

You can't trust any ISP, unless you have big wasta there, period.
I think the download is not a big problem the new program that everyone is using these days (like spotnet) is centralized and when only updates the server using the pc nternet .. as for the ping anything less than 80 is good ... Buy i cant recommend any isp .. ogero seemed like the best option for individual use .. but for your case i am not sure.
get a dedicated internet over DSL line. Microwave has higher latency which is not suitable for gaming. You need good latency. Internet speed is not the only factor. I have a 20Mbps connection here. I can put my torrents to download at full speed, but can still game fine online since my ping is good.

Get the internet plan that offers the best stable ping
MrClass wrote I have a 20Mbps connection here.
Where here?
LifeEngineer wrote
MrClass wrote I have a 20Mbps connection here.
Where here?
hahaha no man; im in dubai.

but a dedicated connection in lebanon is decent; cost wise not so much
Microwave link latency is much lower than DSL, it is how technology works (by definition DSL adds 10-25ms), and microwave structurally almosty same as fiber, difference is so miniscule, that switch chip (store&forward) introduce more latency, than microwave link by itself. Also, modern technologies as 100G fiber technically working similar way as microwave (error correction encoding, modulation, etc).

Where microwave suck, especially if frequency high - during bad weather conditions, it is depends what are link availability budget for your ITU rain zone. If you are not lucky and your copper lines will suffer from water leaks / humidity, you will get even worse on DSL.
Many ISPs in Lebanon claim they have microwave, while they install CSMA crap similar to Mikrotik. Also how routing/switching done, if there is any congestion points - matter too.
So claiming any reliability or latency figures unless person have deep details of whole path - bad idea, it just shows how incompetent this person are in telecom subject.
nuclearcat wroteMicrowave link latency is much lower than DSL, it is how technology works (by definition DSL adds 10-25ms), and microwave structurally almosty same as fiber, difference is so miniscule, that switch chip (store&forward) introduce more latency, than microwave link by itself. Also, modern technologies as 100G fiber technically working similar way as microwave (error correction encoding, modulation, etc).

Where microwave suck, especially if frequency high - during bad weather conditions, it is depends what are link availability budget for your ITU rain zone. If you are not lucky and your copper lines will suffer from water leaks / humidity, you will get even worse on DSL.
Many ISPs in Lebanon claim they have microwave, while they install CSMA crap similar to Mikrotik. Also how routing/switching done, if there is any congestion points - matter too.
So claiming any reliability or latency figures unless person have deep details of whole path - bad idea, it just shows how incompetent this person are in telecom subject.
Based on experience, Microwave has alot of stability issues and much more downtime than DSL.

Also DSL is cheaper which should bring the cost down, but the link will be limited in bandwidth.

The best latency I've had on microwave was 130ms, while DSL was 65ms; both were Cyberia ISP and Cable1 DSP.

If you're going with a dedicated line, I highly advise to negotiate who the DSP will be. Cable1 and Pesco are great if you have coverage there. NEVER GO WITH GDS. EVER.
chaf.b wroteHello guys,

We are soon lunching a new gaming lounge in Mount Lebanon and i'm having a bad time choosing the best internet provider. We will have 40 pcs for a start, 80 pcs is our near future goal.

A really experienced guy advised me to go either with Sodetel or IDM (microwave dedicated 8mb plan with a fixed ip) in addition of another connection from the local isp providers. he can set the sodetel cnx to be used only in game, and the isp connection for loading the games and internet browsing, steam login and stuff other than in game that demands a low ping.

can i trust Sodetel not to f**k up my business? as you all know this is the most crucial part for online gaming. they tried to sell me a new offer that includes 3mb up 8 down, 200GB consumption limit for 200$, they said i can have multiple plans like this one and BOND them. is this recommended or not ?

Another person advised to work ONLY with cyberia.

I also heard that terranet is really good, will have a meeting with them soon to see what they have to offer and what plan they recommend.

I would like to know from you guys specially the online gamers which provider do you recommend and why? and what plan do you think i will need ? i think it will be between 6 and 8 for 40 pcs.

your replies and opinions are hugely appreciated! oh and everyone in here will have free hours upon opening
send me a message if you are interested i know a guy who manage a lot of those internet cafes in lebanon i can put you in contact with him and he can tell you depending on your area what to get and i think he can manage all the IT stuff for you it;s his job.
MrClass wrote Based on experience, Microwave has alot of stability issues and much more downtime than DSL.

Also DSL is cheaper which should bring the cost down, but the link will be limited in bandwidth.

The best latency I've had on microwave was 130ms, while DSL was 65ms; both were Cyberia ISP and Cable1 DSP.

If you're going with a dedicated line, I highly advise to negotiate who the DSP will be. Cable1 and Pesco are great if you have coverage there. NEVER GO WITH GDS. EVER.
Basing on experience without deep analysis is wrong. I am absolutely sure proper microwave will be much more reliable and lower latency than DSL by multiple reasons.
If we talk about regular DSL, it depends much more than microwave link, in matters of reliability also - on billing(radius auth), BRAS(LAC/LNS), congestion/load of particular DSLAM and exchange, copper wiring that is passing publicly accessible wiring cabinets.
And don't expect this shared appliance will be adjusted for need of one customer, while personal microwave link, DSP are interested to keep on, to return their investments.
It's fine when you use DSL for home internet, but when you business depends on connection and even 30 seconds downtime will be noticeable - you need or fiber or microwave.

Such latency difference depends on what route ISP will put you (if it has capability to change it), it has absolutely nothing to do with last mile media.
About cable1 i can't confirm, some of customers had mixed experience, but i dont have enough feedback, but Pesco i confirm, they work quite well and using carrier grade equipment, it dont have any issues except at heavy raining, they might get short outages. However they dont have support at night, rarely when their equipment crash(with me it happened on all customers 2-3 times per year, mostly after they did bandwidth upgrade), you might need to wait until morning.
With DSL, if you are unlucky, you might be crawling and begging for days for ISP, who will bounce you to Ogero, and Ogero will bounce back to ISP, because communication between ISPs and understaffed Ogero kind of bad.
Nuclearcat I'm just stating my experience with microwave vs dsl. You can do all the analysis you need, but in practice results vary alot.The ISP promised many things which did not happen. Anyway chaf.b you need to contact the ISP so they do a feasibility study. Microwave might not be possible for even the silliest reasons.

In my case we had to keep changing the position of the microwave antenna as new construction sites blocked our line of site.

Dedicated Internet over DSL is possible and much more stable; and is different than shitty home DSL. We had several 4Mbps lines which worked flawlessly with 65ms ping. Any downtimes we had was purely from ISP side; no issues from our side.

Again nuclearcat, that's my experience. Don't roast me for that
MrClass wrote If you're going with a dedicated line, I highly advise to negotiate who the DSP will be. Cable1 and Pesco are great if you have coverage there. NEVER GO WITH GDS. EVER.
Do you have any idea about the main areas that Cable1 and Pesco cover?
MrClass wrote Again nuclearcat, that's my experience. Don't roast me for that
Im just saying, that in Lebanon, especially with crappy ISPs everywhere and very low quality standards experience usually vary from 0 to 100%.
I guess if topic starter will do wrong decision, and wont understand what are exactly possible weak points, it might cost him his business and investments.
Btw about link being faded by building and construction, definitely you need to make sure there is clear LOS to base, and not only LOS, but also fresnel zone clear. Many DSPs is deadly illiterate in wireless and ignore fresnel zone totally, then link becoming a lottery, sometimes works, sometimes not.
nuclearcat wrote
MrClass wrote Again nuclearcat, that's my experience. Don't roast me for that
Im just saying, that in Lebanon, especially with crappy ISPs everywhere and very low quality standards experience usually vary from 0 to 100%.
I guess if topic starter will do wrong decision, and wont understand what are exactly possible weak points, it might cost him his business and investments.
Btw about link being faded by building and construction, definitely you need to make sure there is clear LOS to base, and not only LOS, but also fresnel zone clear. Many DSPs is deadly illiterate in wireless and ignore fresnel zone totally, then link becoming a lottery, sometimes works, sometimes not.
how much does pesco's dedicated 8mb (or more) plan cost? and do you have any idea how sodetel compares to pesco based on what you've heard/experienced?
nuclearcat wroteYou can't trust any ISP, unless you have big wasta there, period.
The only (big wasta) we have is with ogero, but speaking with this guy at ogero he mentioned that it is not so simple to have a big internet plan from them, they will always send someone to check if the usage of the connection is as agreed, i dont know if they are afraid that i resell the plan as multiple small accounts or what..
MrClass wroteget a dedicated internet over DSL line. Microwave has higher latency which is not suitable for gaming. You need good latency. Internet speed is not the only factor. I have a 20Mbps connection here. I can put my torrents to download at full speed, but can still game fine online since my ping is good.

Get the internet plan that offers the best stable ping
i will have to agree on what nuclearcat replied to this.. in fact, everyone i know agrees that microwave have lower latency
MrClass wrote
nuclearcat wroteMicrowave link latency is much lower than DSL, it is how technology works (by definition DSL adds 10-25ms), and microwave structurally almosty same as fiber, difference is so miniscule, that switch chip (store&forward) introduce more latency, than microwave link by itself. Also, modern technologies as 100G fiber technically working similar way as microwave (error correction encoding, modulation, etc).

Where microwave suck, especially if frequency high - during bad weather conditions, it is depends what are link availability budget for your ITU rain zone. If you are not lucky and your copper lines will suffer from water leaks / humidity, you will get even worse on DSL.
Many ISPs in Lebanon claim they have microwave, while they install CSMA crap similar to Mikrotik. Also how routing/switching done, if there is any congestion points - matter too.
So claiming any reliability or latency figures unless person have deep details of whole path - bad idea, it just shows how incompetent this person are in telecom subject.
Based on experience, Microwave has alot of stability issues and much more downtime than DSL.

Also DSL is cheaper which should bring the cost down, but the link will be limited in bandwidth.

The best latency I've had on microwave was 130ms, while DSL was 65ms; both were Cyberia ISP and Cable1 DSP.

If you're going with a dedicated line, I highly advise to negotiate who the DSP will be. Cable1 and Pesco are great if you have coverage there. NEVER GO WITH GDS. EVER.

DSP will be either cable1 or pesco for all the companies that i talked to. for sodetel it's pesco and for terranet cable1
MrClass wroteNuclearcat I'm just stating my experience with microwave vs dsl. You can do all the analysis you need, but in practice results vary alot.The ISP promised many things which did not happen. Anyway chaf.b you need to contact the ISP so they do a feasibility study. Microwave might not be possible for even the silliest reasons.

In my case we had to keep changing the position of the microwave antenna as new construction sites blocked our line of site.

Dedicated Internet over DSL is possible and much more stable; and is different than shitty home DSL. We had several 4Mbps lines which worked flawlessly with 65ms ping. Any downtimes we had was purely from ISP side; no issues from our side.

Again nuclearcat, that's my experience. Don't roast me for that
of course a feasibility study is a must.. what is promising is that all companies said that my location (ma fiya techwich) and it will be good. will make sure of that in the few coming days.
serouj wrote how much does pesco's dedicated 8mb (or more) plan cost? and do you have any idea how sodetel compares to pesco based on what you've heard/experienced?
Pesco just provide connectivity from you to ISP, sure not for free. (Thats how law in Lebanon works, ISP can't have their own link, they should get it over DSP, unless they are Ogero, Ogero is ISP and DSP at same time)
So in this case you will end up paying two pockets.
Some exception - GDS are "pocket" DSP of IDM, and there is few others, but as some users said, there is negative experience about them. My personal experience with them too old to state anything.
chaf.b wrote
nuclearcat wroteYou can't trust any ISP, unless you have big wasta there, period.
The only (big wasta) we have is with ogero, but speaking with this guy at ogero he mentioned that it is not so simple to have a big internet plan from them, they will always send someone to check if the usage of the connection is as agreed, i dont know if they are afraid that i resell the plan as multiple small accounts or what..
Yes, they are concerned you will open small ISP without obtaining necessary permits.
we tested today a similar gaming lounge with sodetel connection + another connection from a local provider (cable)
the connections are managed as i told u in my main post, sodetel cnx just for in game playing and the other cheap cnx is for the loading games and web browsing, games updates etc... the ping was always at 83ms .. i rarely noticed the ping going up or down even for 1 ms. (i was playing on a eu server).
for sodetel their price for each mb was higher than terranet, around 18% more. also when i asked if they have a backup connection in case of a crash, they only offered a dsl connection, as for terranet they offered that too in addition of another microwave that will be installed but will be linked to another source than the first microwave, they said if the connection ever crash for multiple very specified reasons, a simple cable switch can get us connected again.
IDM and cyberia meeting are tomorrow, will keep u updated.

i rly appreciate everyone's time and replies, my knowledge is this is very limited so i will hopefully make the right choice thank to u..