Buying an MMORPG locally

Opeth wrote

geekevo wrote

Chafic wrote@rtp own creeps? yes its more gank oriented but for faster game, well that could be more or less false. You could be losing 20-8 and turn it 20-45. Its all about skills (certain champions) and gameplay. You cant just take a face roll champion (xin zaho) or a easy noob champion with just auto attacks to kill them (teemo) and win the game. It requires team work and understanding.

LET THE FLAME WARS BEGIN, LoL doesn't require any teamwork if you compare it to dota besides i always found LoL to be more pay to win than dota.

How is LoL pay to win ? there are no real money items that improve your performance in-game :P and GW2 is much better than TERA imo but if you have Rift then that's also a great game which is now F2P.

Runes, besides isn't flash during combat an almost instant escape? And how can you counter heroes if you don't have the entire roster to select?

geekevo wroteI don't play lots of LoL just couple of times a month, but flash on every hero is ridiculous and don't tell me flash can't be used for escaping use on the river to go to either sides or getting into turrets range it can also be used for chasing and maybe if you are lucky for initiation also when you reach a high mm ( not my experience a friends) expensive runes make a big diffrence to someone who chose to spend his points mainly on heros for a greater variety.

Flash on every hero is a waste of an extra utility that can be more useful. Using it as an escape tool is very rare and often gets you killed more then actually help you and you'd be wasting a 200+ cd in the process, it is used as such sometimes but not as often as you'd think unless by newbs ;) Besides as i said, takes less then a day to acquire. Another note is that a level 1 won't be matched with a lvl 12+, so I don't see the point of the argument here, you are always matched equally, except very rarely when you come near the edge of acquiring the full summoner rooster but even then you are still in your first week of casual newbiness, so it's quite silly to argue that this is pay 2 win.
Expensive runes do a matter at the end but by the time you fully grasp the gameplay of the game and are actually competitive, you won't be playing casually and be time picky, and this is why i spoke of the learning curve of the moba which is why this isn't fit to be mentioned as p2w either.

Another note, your being too picky on arguing that this is a pay 2 win, have u actually played a pay 2 win game? A real pay 2 win one which doesn't allow you to progress unless you actually dumb tons of cash in it. I'm not saying that games with certain boosts doesn't mean P2W but the margin in this one is just too far to even called one. There are many things to factor when deciding a free 2 play from a pay 2 win, don't jump the gun because of a minor long shot system that actually offers a reward system outside of the game itself. I can see that your game preference is different in gaming then the subject at hand.

maulader wrote

geekevo wroteI don't play lots of LoL just couple of times a month, but flash on every hero is ridiculous and don't tell me flash can't be used for escaping use on the river to go to either sides or getting into turrets range it can also be used for chasing and maybe if you are lucky for initiation also when you reach a high mm ( not my experience a friends) expensive runes make a big diffrence to someone who chose to spend his points mainly on heros for a greater variety.

Flash on every hero is a waste of an extra utility that can be more useful. Using it as an escape tool is very rare and often gets you killed more then actually help you and you'd be wasting a 200+ cd in the process, it is used as such sometimes but not as often as you'd think unless by newbs ;) Besides as i said, takes less then a day to acquire. Another note is that a level 1 won't be matched with a lvl 12+, so I don't see the point of the argument here, you are always matched equally, except very rarely when you come near the edge of acquiring the full summoner rooster but even then you are still in your first week of casual newbiness, so it's quite silly to argue that this is pay 2 win.
Expensive runes do a matter at the end but by the time you fully grasp the gameplay of the game and are actually competitive, you won't be playing casually and be time picky, and this is why i spoke of the learning curve of the moba which is why this isn't fit to be mentioned as p2w either.

Another note, your being too picky on arguing that this is a pay 2 win, have u actually played a pay 2 win game? A real pay 2 win one which doesn't allow you to progress unless you actually dumb tons of cash in it. I'm not saying that games with certain boosts doesn't mean P2W but the margin in this one is just too far to even called one. There are many things to factor when deciding a free 2 play from a pay 2 win, don't jump the gun because of a minor long shot system that actually offers a reward system outside of the game itself. I can see that your game preference is different in gaming then the subject at hand.

You are putting much faith in the MM system at level 6 i was playing level 20s and having little access to utilities made me feel weaker even though i was equal on gold and xp to enemies which just ruins the game for me. One of the reasons i don't like LoL is that i am not willing to learn the heroes, if i had the entire pool to pick from i could choose heroes and learn their weaknesses but due to limited choice I have to resort to guides which is just ugly and nooby. I will just stick to Dota.

geekevo wrote

Opeth wrote

geekevo wrote LET THE FLAME WARS BEGIN, LoL doesn't require any teamwork if you compare it to dota besides i always found LoL to be more pay to win than dota.

How is LoL pay to win ? there are no real money items that improve your performance in-game :P and GW2 is much better than TERA imo but if you have Rift then that's also a great game which is now F2P.

Runes, besides isn't flash during combat an almost instant escape? And how can you counter heroes if you don't have the entire roster to select?

Runes aren't bought with real money and flash is nowhere near an instant escape :P I don't think you've played the game yet you call it P2W.

geekevo wroteYou are putting much faith in the MM system at level 6 i was playing level 20s and having little access to utilities made me feel weaker even though i was equal on gold and xp to enemies which just ruins the game for me. One of the reasons i don't like LoL is that i am not willing to learn the heroes, if i had the entire pool to pick from i could choose heroes and learn their weaknesses but due to limited choice I have to resort to guides which is just ugly and nooby. I will just stick to Dota.

The MM system widens the range when the queue time is long however this occurs very rarely, another thing is premades of a mix of low-high levels in 1 group. Judging the game by a level 6 account is not really accurate, you are talking about competitive gameplay and imbalance yet using the learning approach of the game to support your argument. A reason of why everything is not available at first, is to lighten up the learning and not put too much stress on the newbie to pick from as they will get that in time, and which is why LoL is more newbie friendly, why masteries are not suddenly 30/30 and runes 30/30 as well. It is all part of the learning process of the game itself.
As I said you have a different approach and playstyle to games judging by your comments. That isn't enough to judge a game pay 2 win.

@Opeth: He meant the IP boost for runes, but I think I explained why considering boosts as an only factor to judge a game's financial approach isn't enough.

maulader wrote

geekevo wroteYou are putting much faith in the MM system at level 6 i was playing level 20s and having little access to utilities made me feel weaker even though i was equal on gold and xp to enemies which just ruins the game for me. One of the reasons i don't like LoL is that i am not willing to learn the heroes, if i had the entire pool to pick from i could choose heroes and learn their weaknesses but due to limited choice I have to resort to guides which is just ugly and nooby. I will just stick to Dota.

The MM system widens the range when the queue time is long however this occurs very rarely, another thing is premades of a mix of low-high levels in 1 group. Judging the game by a level 6 account is not really accurate, you are talking about competitive gameplay and imbalance yet using the learning approach of the game to support your argument. A reason of why everything is not available at first, is to lighten up the learning and not put too much stress on the newbie to pick from as they will get that in time, and which is why LoL is more newbie friendly, why masteries are not suddenly 30/30 and runes 30/30 as well. It is all part of the learning process of the game itself.
As I said you have a different approach and playstyle to games judging by your comments. That isn't enough to judge a game pay 2 win.

@Opeth: He meant the IP boost for runes, but I think I explained why considering boosts as an only factor to judge a game's financial approach isn't enough.

Still i like having all cards on the table, I find that only when you are overwhelmed with the amount of things to learn that you take the effort to learn them. I also hate caster scalling a good enemy lux will eat me alive ( a flash against lux is a good escape mechanism) at times like that i wish i could have anti-mage with me.

Flash is essential because of both escape and gank. They whole point of moba is not to feed that's why we use flash. I started using flash the moment I played my first rank game.(mainly heal, and ignite) It's not so much as a pay to win. You could be going to a blind 5 on 5 match and the other team could have your counter champion or the same. As for runes, they are a must buy as soon as possible(only buy tier 3 runes).I have two full tier 3 runes that balance all roles. Although some champions require both AD and AP runes (Warwick, Evelyn, Jax, e.t.c) it wont be a big deal since in game items will make for it.

geekevo wrote Still i like having all cards on the table, I find that only when you are overwhelmed with the amount of things to learn that you take the effort to learn them. I also hate caster scalling a good enemy lux will eat me alive ( a flash against lux is a good escape mechanism) at times like that i wish i could have anti-mage with me.

Which means the game isn't your type which I've mentioned multiples times already. I believe we strayed from the original intent of this discussion and are now discussing different game types and gameplays instead of financial model. I believe these posts fit better in the dota vs lol thread instead of here. Personally, i didn't want to discuss these 2 because they're completely different and are each made to a different market target.

I will tell you about the two games you think are great:
1- RIFT: A heavily unbalanced-classes game because of the many souls. There is always a flavor of the month, and not only that, they seem to do it to bring back those who left the game. Anyways, the lore in this game is absolutely dreadful, you won't even bother reading the quests, just farm them. I've played it back when it was with subscription, now it is free, so not sure what changed. Dungeons and raids are nice, they offer some challenge, especially for tanks. There is World PvP which is better than other games, and the instanced PvP got some flavor to it where each one requires a different way to win. Reason I left was because of the extreme nerf/buffs to classes, devs in decent games usually buff or nerf 5-10%, where as in RIFT they nerf/buff up to almost 50%. Totally illogical and game breaking.

2- Guild Wars 2: Very nicely polished game, however it lacks in all of the aspects of the game. World PvP is only done on certain maps, and only against other servers, so there isn't an actual real world pvp. Instanced PvP are the worst, in ALL of the instances you are required to hold ground. True there are places where you can gather points in other means, but the main way is still to hold positions. Which gets extremely boring. PvE, there are no raids, only dungeons. Some dungeons take 10min and rewards same as those 30min dungeons, other dungeons are being solo'd through exploits. After adding loot to champions, the game turned into a farmfest, ruined the economy. The Achievement points is totally screwed, because you get them by doing dailies, so you will NEVER catch up to those who started the game early on. After a year, they barely added any decent permanent content. All those negative points, got me to leave the game.