AvoK95 wrote
ILIA_93 wroteOk, so if I'm getting a new PSU, what would it be? ( Give me something to last )
XFX is good
InWin
i recommend my PSU since it has 4 12VRails each at 18A and its 750W and it has a 14cm silent fan
it's an awesome PSU and i never regretted putting 178$ for it
You have the In-Win commander 750W PSU right? Well it's kinda my choice for now, but I really care about the timing ( whatever it's called ), what I meant is when I first used the PSU that came with the case ( with 9800gt of course ), it takes about 3 seconds so I can turn on my PC after the UPS is on, and every time the electricity cuts off, the PC restart ( especially under load ), I got then a TT 400W Lite power and my problem was solved, so do you experience this with your PSU, I really don't want to end up burning my HDD and other parts cause of power fails when electricity is out ( which is pretty much each 30 mins in here :S ).
ILIA_93 wroteYou have the In-Win commander 750W PSU right? Well it's kinda my choice for now, but I really care about the timing ( whatever it's called ), [...] and other parts cause of power fails when electricity is out ( which is pretty much each 30 mins in here :S ).
Dude, even if you had a 15000W Enermax 150% efficiency PSU, how can you leave it on without a UPS?? 30 min means that your HDD would soon be dead too, either due to filesystem corruption, or due to start / stop head problems (start / stop count would become too high). An APS would be much better too.


<moderation edit: I edited out the nested quotes. Please avoid that in the future. We've already talked about that. />
!!!
What the....!!

You're first post yasamoka was AMAZING, made me know what I'm facing, but now it's o.O !!!!

Who's leaving a PSU without a UPS! I have a 1200VA UPS for my case only, and other to monitor and speakers. And why should my HDD burn in 30mins. And what's up with the moderation edit!!!

All I'm saying is I had a PSU ( let's call it slow ), when the electricity cuts out, and the power is switched to the backup power ( UPS ), the PSU turns off, and the PC restarts. I want to know if the PSU I'm planning to get has the same problem.
your PSU restarted because it lacked stabilized voltage and it didn't give promised Wattage's
So In-Win Commander 750W it is. Just one thing: Will my 1200VA UPS handle it ( only the PSU, nothing else connected to the UPS ).
ILIA_93 wrote!!!
What the....!!

You're first post yasamoka was AMAZING, made me know what I'm facing, but now it's o.O !!!!

Who's leaving a PSU without a UPS! I have a 1200VA UPS for my case only, and other to monitor and speakers. And why should my HDD burn in 30mins. And what's up with the moderation edit!!!

All I'm saying is I had a PSU ( let's call it slow ), when the electricity cuts out, and the power is switched to the backup power ( UPS ), the PSU turns off, and the PC restarts. I want to know if the PSU I'm planning to get has the same problem.
Haha I'm sorry! I apologize, I thought you were running without a UPS! Well that happens to me too. The thing is, PSU wattage is not all that matters. I got a 1200VA UPS, even replaced its batteries which had gotten weak after time, yet the UPS cannot handle above 400-500W load. I can probably run full load on the UPS without it restarting, with a single graphics card and CPU, but once I put my PhysX card in, which consumes 70W max, the UPS cannot hold the load and restarts. So it's not only about how much a PSU can give you in terms of time, but how much power load it can sustain.

That aside, the moderation edit was for nested quotes. It means that I was quoting something that somebody else, or you, quoted something else in. It looks messy and adds confusion, and I didn't pay attention to it.

And about the HDDs. I calculated it like this. Last time I read, modern hard drives were able to withstand 40000 start/stop cycles according to the manufacturers like Seagate (or Samsung). Now if you have a power cut every 30 mins, you have 48 cuts every day. Had the HDD even been able to hold 40000 start/stop cycles, the HDD would last you around 2.28 years, disregarding the anecdotal evidence that most HDDs tend to fail while spinning up (not scaring you, you should always have a backup. I learned the hard way...almost.). You're placing your HDD in grave danger had you been running without a UPS, or an unable UPS at that. Other than that, a more critical problem even is filesystem corruption. If your HDD's get too much interrupted power, the chance of getting filesystem corruption increases greatly. Then you'd have to reformat and go through file recovery. Not too exciting.

I mean, I had only placed my system on an open bench for a few days. One of my sucker friends who came over for LAN play kept vibrating the table, and kept crashing the system. I restarted multiple times so that I could get into the game, and after he left (if not the same day, a day later), my HDD's partitions were appearing as RAW (they WERE NTFS :D). Recovered for few days, ran it for a day, then bam! again!

Now I got a Western Digital WD1002FAEX HDD. Let's see how that one goes. So far I'm loving it <3

Now again about the PSU: PSU startup time is in ms, I don't think it even breaks the "second" barrier. That property should be listed in the PSU's specs. I don't think it should even be a slight problem.

One thing you could do for overheating is to get thermal paste, remove the coolers on your CPU and GFX, and apply new paste after removing the old one. You may be surprised at the temp difference you get. AvoK95 can second that :D Be careful though, if you don't apply correctly, you may get higher temps (usually GFX cards do this if applied improperly). Of course, you can reapply and test again, but the issue is wasting the paste. You could get 10C-20C difference with better thermal paste compared to stock paste!
Get xfx! You want efficiency, stability, low ripple, low noise, better amps..etc get XFX.

Its not related to your psu, its related to your ups. When it switches to the backup, it hiccups and thus your pc restarts or shuts down. No psu, at least in lebanon, has a voltage regulator inside of it. Its about the ups.
Beej wroteGet xfx! You want efficiency, stability, low ripple, low noise, better amps..etc get XFX.

Its not related to your psu, its related to your ups. When it switches to the backup, it hiccups and thus your pc restarts or shuts down. No psu, at least in lebanon, has a voltage regulator inside of it. Its about the ups.
Yes if XFX is indeed made by Seasonic, then it's an awesome piece of kit!

@ILIA_93: This is what I advise you to do. Calculate max power consumption that your system may go through. Factor in overclocks, overvolts (pay attention to this. Power consumption is directly proportional to frequency, but exponentially increases with voltage. A 10% increase in voltage is a 21% increase in power consumption.) Factor in motherboard power consumption of 25-50W (that's a bit high though), 10W per stick of RAM, 10-15W per HDD. Divide that number by 0.7, and you get the PSU wattage you need so that you don't reduce lifespan.

EDIT: I remembered something to tell you about the HDD. Have you ever wondered why old HDDs last much longer than new ones, which simply go dead silently? It's because new HDDs are being manufactured, according to environmental restrictions, with lead-free soldering. This makes their boards have reduced lifespan due to an effect called dendritic growth, which causes the board to short-circuit. Heat is the main factor for this effect, so make sure, when you're cooling an HDD, to not only cool the upper part, but to make sure that airflow is reaching the lower part, which is where the HDD's PCB is located.
Wow yasamoka, I really should pay you a lot for what you're giving me :-) THANK-YOU-SO-MUCH.

I calculated the power draw of the parts I'm planning to get, it came up around 750W. But why XFX?
I compared:
-XFX P1-750S-NLB9 750W PSU
-Inwin IRP-COM750 750W PSU
Found at: http://pcandparts.com/must.htm

The 2nd is much better ( when coming to 12v rail amps ) for 10$ price difference, but I don't know about the difference in quality between the two :/ .

As for the heating issues, I don't know how to take out the VGA fan! And I'm not willing to risk losing it. Same for the CPU. I'm totally new for overclocking my parts, and I'm on stock cooling ( God damn it :S ). I read all over the net people getting 50-60c for the GPU under load, while I get it on Idle. Same goes for the CPU. I don't know what's wrong :/ ?!!
ok hold on,
if the temps were in the clear meaning below 75 degrees for your gpu then its good. whats ur current cpu sorry but i did not read previous posts...
the cpu usually should be kept at idle at 40 degrees respective to its cores which should be about 6 degrees higher.
make sure the cpu heatsink is properly inserted and that dust is cleaned from the cpu fans(if u have temperature issues)
im not sure if u did ram tests but do that (memtest86) although i doubt its the ram.
psu 50-50 chance u have to troubleshoot to know. before troubleshooting run a malwarescan using malwarebytes(google) to check if there are any malwares causing this and yes malware can cause BSOD.if triggered by a certain application.
on with troubleshooting download the new drivers for your graphics card make a clean uninstall for your old ones and download the new ones(285.38beta for nvidia because i noticed u have 9800gt i guess which is the same as mine.)
all in all as far as my computer experience tells me random BSOD's occur of two things:
psu/overheating.
like i mentioned above clean dust make sure cpu heatsink is properly inserted and video card is clean. also note that a bad psu can cause high temps i recommend testing another psu to eliminate the psu issue and to avoid damaging the pc

if the problem persists whats ur current psu? current 12Vrail amps?
if u want a new psu i recommend getting thermal take or coolermaster. it would really help me know ur system specs
1) The GPU hits 88c with ArmA2 on full load and details.
2) At idle the cpu cores temps are around 42-47c ( like now ).
3) Tested the RAMs, 100% clean.
4) Thanks for the Malwarebytes, I got 28 infected files.
5) I have a GTX460 btw, and I'm getting a BSOD with 266-270-275-280 drivers!!! :S
6) Both PSU and a new TT case should be mine by 2012. (PSU first)
ILIA_93 wroteWow yasamoka, I really should pay you a lot for what you're giving me :-) THANK-YOU-SO-MUCH.

I calculated the power draw of the parts I'm planning to get, it came up around 750W.
Weird. It came out as 650W for me. How did you do your calculations? Can you list?
how did u test the rams? Can you clarify on that?
ILIA_93 wroteI calculated the power draw of the parts I'm planning to get, it came up around 750W.
Which will be an overclocked 2600K, and an overclocked GTX580. With 2 HDDs, 2 RAMs, 1DVD Drive, Board, 4 fans ( 2x20 1x23 1x12 ), so 750W it is, right?
I don't care about what I'm having now, by summer It'll be a completely new pc.

I tested the RAMs threw windows, memory diagnosing, or something like that :S .
for some reason my gtx460 got higher temps too after aging and im facing crashes too during web browsing, i think firefox is causing the crashes, as for the high temps, its either dust or bad quality build (a little hard to believe for an evga card)
i changed tp several times still getting like 48C during firefox
Ilia & shant: Evga quality has decreased from the gtx2xx days. Also their 460 does indeed have the highest temps and noise level, duo to using external exhaust cooler. They overheat and after a little bit of time, duo to dust they get insanly hot. Keep cleening them and dusting them out. And change TIM to lower temps.

Also guys forget about power calculator, they are bogus and give no real wattage. Its not always good to buy a psu that have alot of extra wattage to be sure, after all NOT using the psu to atleast 60-70% of it damages it too.

Get the xfx psu it will be great and enough. And these psu love to be pushed to their max, not like you will reach it anyways.

And Ilia, when do we ever trust what windows do for us? Do you trust the windows scoring of your system/rig? When you defrag, do you use windows?...etc

The true way to test rams is maxxmem. Download i and run it and you will see if your rams are the problem.

Also indeed firefox is doing something these days with drivers, i suggest uninstalling it and everything related to it and try to see what happens.
Beej wroteThe true way to test rams is maxxmem. Download i and run it and you will see if your rams are the problem.
Just test with MaxxMEM, well it's a benchmark software, not for checking RAM problem, I got 5Gbytes/s ( is it any good ? )
Beej wroteGet the xfx psu it will be great and enough. And these psu love to be pushed to their max, not like you will reach it anyways.
I'm betwenn:
-XFX P1-750S-NLB9 750W PSU
-Inwin IRP-COM750 750W PSU

Why XFX and not In-Win?!! In-Win have more amps on the 12v rails, and both are 750W.
Well ill try and summarize it, i dont like to go technical :S i really dont. Anyway here goes:

1) Release date: inwin commander was released sometime in april 2009, while xfx 750w core edition was released january 2011. Psus are not like alcohol, the older the better. So imagine it sitting years in stock.
2) Even if you see more amps on +12v rail that doesnt mean that the psu will give you such value with according watage.
If you check the label on the psus, you will find inwin having 72amps and a TOTAL of 750w, while you see 62 amps and the wattage for the +12v rail is 744.
3) It has better efficiency
4) Lower noise
5) Higher ripple suppression
6) Better voltage regulation

To sum it up: Both are good,but your payin 10$ less for a newer,better,more efficient, safer (has better over volt and over current protection)...etc

Also passing maxxmem is a sign of ram stability, you can run memtest 86 if you want, but your ram are ok. Its eaither driver on its own, board or psu. Since your getting this psu it will be enough for years and upgrades to come.
I didn't recommend power calculator, I recommended him to calculate power for himself, using TDPs and measured max power consumption too. Also, isn't idle state on a PC equivalent to running a low load on a PSU? Does that damage the PSU? Also, a PSU has its peak efficiency at 50%, such a system, whose load peaks 70%, will surely vary between 50% and 70% load.

I don't recommend any windows memory tests AT ALL, since Windows allocates a huge part of the system RAM to its processes, which cannot be used by the memory test. Memtest86+ is the way to go. Place it on a flash drive and boot from it.

Also, why do you want to replace your GTX 460 with a GTX 580?? If you're upgrading in the summer, the 6 series (Nvidia) and the 7000 series (AMD) would already be out.

EDIT: Oh I get your point. You're upgrading bit by bit. Although I recommend you mix and match the system based on what is now available and will be available. Patience is the key. Before the summer, Ivy Bridge will be out, and new GFX cards too. Your GTX 460 is plenty, at least till you upgrade. And why a GTX 580? Are you willing to pay such a high premium for the marginal increase over the GTX 570 (with the exception of VRAM increase), and the even lesser marginal increase over the HD6970, which you can buy instead an HD6950 and unlock it to 6970 (most probably), and have a fat 2GB VRAM? Think it through carefully, and consider that most probably, if not surely, the Nvidia series will have 2GB VRAM, while I don't know about AMD (following the trend, AMD came out with 512MB for 4xxx series, 1GB for 5xxx series, 2GB for 6xxx series. I don't think they're going to go 4GB. Either they stick with 2GB or they stuff in an odd amount, like Nvidia usually does, of 2.5 - 3GB. AMD are usually systematic with their memory designs. Again it's doubtful. 2GB is plenty!)
thats just to high for a gtx 460 88 degrees?
whats ur current psu? and what are the amps on ur 12V rails?if the psu is good enough its definitely overheating,or a virus you should know if its a virus since youve done malwarebytes.