LebGeeks

NuclearVision

Member

med school vs engineering

hello everyone.
No more postponing, no more ignoring, no more childish thinking, it is time to decide.
i know it may sound like a tragedy but c'mon bear with me, and sorry if this has been discussed before, i searched but couldn't find something useful, also fresh information would really help from people who experienced the same situation.
I don't really have wide-open choices, it is gonna be most probably in the Lebanese university, my grades are good so entrance won't be a problem(i assume). i am currently in the general sciences section.

My plans were to study engineering, mechanical engineering, in the LU. however parents advise to study in LU medical school.
You know they do stuff to convince me, but it kind of makes sense. they are not the most modern people on the planet so yeah they still think like people did a decade ago. Couple of points they mention:

- as an engineer you will be an average payed employee unless you get a real opportunity which does not exist in Lebanon.
- time will come and the company you are working for might collapse, economic situation.
- you won't probably find another work.
- med school is guaranteed job, and you will enjoy a better way of living, more money, and you can open your own clinic, also work at a hospital.
And stuff like that.

your comments on the subject really mean something to me.

a few questions also:
what are the chances of getting in the LU?
is it really as hard as they say?
i'm GS, the entrance exam(concours) will have biology subject ?
extra tips and slight off-topics are also welcomed.

thanks guys.

Personerst

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

I've been through the same exact situation with my parents really wanting me to be a medical student mentioning the same exact points.
This confused me a lot and I didn't know what to choose. But finally I felt like engineering is the major I want to do and right now I'm studying electromechanical engineering at esib (it's been two days since we started university).
My advice: go for the thing that you feel like doing in the future, do you feel that you would be a good physician or would you enjoy engineering more? Are you more of a math and physics person or do you like biology more? Personally, I would say that at med school you would have to memorize things ( you know all the biology and things) while engineering relies more on your logical skills just my opinion though. Plus doing a thing you don't like would be a pure nightmare and you would have minimal chances of succeeding.
I guess looking for a job description of both jobs would be useful.
Taking to engineers and physician would also be helpful and if you have the chance to witness their typical activities don't hesitate to do so.
As for the entrance exam having good grades is a plus but you should be well prepared, just don't say it would be easy and I can do it eyes closed because that what I did and having good grades usually I failed to pass the ul roumieh concours (being a life sciences student).
Good luck whatever you choose to do.

Elied

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

Those points your parents said are extremely one sided (no offence), did you stop and think about the positives of being an engineer ?
1- an engineer doesn't get called up at 2 AM in the morning because some patient is about to die and he is needed.
2- just like a doctor can open a clinic an engineer can open a small company or business in his area of expertise.
3- an engineer has an infinite amout of areas of work (like jobs that he can do) while doctors confined to their studied speciality.
4- studying to become an engineer only needs 5 years, doctors need 7
5- engineers get all the girls.
Those are just a few reasons that popped in my head, there are many more (ignore the last one, it might not be exactly true ) So don't let others take your decisions, just do what makes you happy

az09za90za

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

what are the chances of getting in the LU?
is it really as hard as they say?
im GS, the entrace exam(concours) will have biology subject ?
extra tips and slight offtopics are also welcomed.

thanks guys.

the chance of getting into LU increase the more you work and study. for engineering,  concours doesn't have biology (math , language , chemistry , physics i guess ). for medicine concours you need to finish 1st year biology at science faculty with an average > 12 (biology , chemistry , math , physics , language )  . and also if you study hard its not that hard to succeed , but you need to know that french students have more chances than English students , and switching from gs to biology is not that easy,

Last edited by az09za90za (September 16 2014)

NuclearVision

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

thanks everyone really helpful.
if i want to go med school, i jave to study one year before the concours in which i might fail?

az09za90za

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

thanks everyone really helpful.
if i want to go med school, i jave to study one year before the concours in which i might fail?

in LU yes . you need to finish 1st year biology with a minimum average of 12. its risky indeed , but its worthy also..but like i said , if you're doing gs , you will find difficulties studying biology and chemistry at 1st year but its not impossible . my advice , focus on your engineering concour , then if you failed , you can enter faculty of science (there is no entrance exam), and submit the med councour at summer.
good luck

rolf

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

There is an Ebola epidemic in Africa. Thousands died in a matter of months and the mortality is progressing exponentially.
10% of the health workers who work on containing the epidemic died due to catching the disease themselves.
Are you willing to go there, risking your life to save many other lives?

Of course if you want to be a doctor, it doesn't mean that you have to be ready to do this, but this is the essence of the medical profession, and if you're not interested, then you may be better off in another profession.

Last edited by rolf (September 17 2014)

NuclearVision

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

thanks again az09, it is really disappointing. i will try to act as you advised. i wonder however, what private university do in similar situations, where GS students want to study medical sciences, one biology year?

and rolf thanks for lighting one of the the "negative" sides of being a doctor, i am not sure if it is negative, eventually someone will have to do the job, my life isn't more important than his : )

A.L

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

the first year of biology in LU is not hard material wise ( a friend of mine was sg and did it) the difficulty comes when you consider the amount of people there imagine yourself in a classroom that has a capacity of 300 people and is filled with  500 students with a low voice professor that will definitely not be able to clarify any misunderstandings in the material due to the large number of students, so you'll have to study all the material from the book alone and go do the exams, besides its not quite fair, the wasta plays a huge role in acceptances( in the following sense: say they accept top 50 if you scored 55 for example and you have wasta you can be pushed to rank as 49 but if you have high rank wasta cannot touch you). my friend eventually got frustrated from what i wrote above and stopped attending and in the next year took the physiotherapy exam and ranked 3ed.
that being said i suggest, as @Personerst said to do what you love, if math and physics is your thing go for engineering.
if you're thinking financially i can assure you that if you work hard enough ( which will result in high grades) you can achieve a salary equivalent to a physician ( and note that being a high paid successful physician is not as easy as the society describes and the odds that you'll reach a salary in lebanon above 100 k a year with an MD is the same as an engineer( who works hard) ).
finally you should consider something before you decide; and that is you're living in lebanon and unless you have a family business that will guarantee you a job after you graduate no matter what degree you have, you're most probably will end up in a low paying job or no job at all even with an MD ( the fact that poverty in the country is spreading and that a physician is in essence humanitarian that cannot not to cure someone if he can even if he cannot pay him, reflect a very stressful life psychologically and financially for a physician).
finally keep in mind that after any degree if you couldn't find a job in industry you can continue graduate studies and go for the very exciting field of academia.
Good luck.

Blue

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

Although this might be slightly off topic, I 'd like to mention this. If you choose to study in an area that you find uninteresting you will live in regret for the rest of your life. So choose what makes you happy.

Last edited by Blue (September 17 2014)

mesa177

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

Those points your parents said are extremely one sided (no offence), did you stop and think about the positives of being an engineer ?
1- an engineer doesn't get called up at 2 AM in the morning because some patient is about to die and he is needed.

You do if you're a biomedical engineer. Sometimes you have to work all through the night and end up sleeping at the hospital.

Joe

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

A few things to consider:

1. If you care about job security, rest assured: Engineering school is a great choice. You'll find a good job, interesting work, high pay and lots of benefits. Engineers never have to worry about finding a job and that's not likely to change any time soon.

2. Do not go to med school unless you're 100% convinced that's what you want. Med school is difficult. It's long (it can be up to 10 years or more). You can only be a medical doctor at the end. The lifestyle of doctors is pretty tough. If you're not convinced that you want it, you'll be a mediocre doctor for the rest of your life.

3. I don't know anything about LU. A few years ago, when I was a college student, LU had the reputation of having good teachers but overcrowded classes. I don't know if things have changed. But in any case, and no matter what you decide, what they teach you at university is not enough. If you want to be successful and happy at your job, be curious and always go beyond classes. Google stuff. Build stuff. Break stuff. Read a lot. You cannot fail if you're passionate about what you do.

(unless if you're passionate about art history...)

rolf

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

A few things to consider:

1. If you care about job security, rest assured: Engineering school is a great choice. You'll find a good job, interesting work, high pay and lots of benefits. Engineers never have to worry about finding a job and that's not likely to change any time soon.

Is that your assessment for the Lebanese job market for engineers? Because my impression was different.

NuclearVision

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

thanks guys, your comments are helpful indeed.

NuclearVision

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

A few things to consider:

1. If you care about job security, rest assured: Engineering school is a great choice. You'll find a good job, interesting work, high pay and lots of benefits. Engineers never have to worry about finding a job and that's not likely to change any time soon.

Is that your assessment for the Lebanese job market for engineers? Because my impression was different.

I'm afraid this is not true... not in lebanon st least.
is it?

m.sabra

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

the faculty of sciences this year had an entrance exam (due to "ifedet"), so next year there might be an exam, as for the "wasta" thing in the medicine concours, it's nonexistent, those who say it exists are those who fail, this year the one who ranked first in the concours got 18/20 and the last accepted student got about 16.5/20 and most of them got averages greater than 17 in the biology year.

As for being crowded,the faculty of science is kinda crowded, the others aren't, but you will find a place for sure, if the class fits 300 they put only 300 in it no more,and the seats are numbered and each one has his seat which changes place during the year (so everybody gets to sit in the front rows).

As for choosing, go with something you like and you're interested in, you don't won't to wake up 10 years later regretting the decision you did now.

xAzarian

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

I was in the same exact position , I wanted to become an engineer since I thought physics was great and you know... I switched my plans when I was in the S2S section , where I knew that physics isn't rainbows and unicorns although I had really high grades. I just studied physics to get grades. Studied maths for grades. But I studied biology because I found out I liked it. It wasn't easy to reconsider everything and to think that I switched to something completely different. After that I entered the SV class (LS) , and same thing : I really liked Biology and this scientific way or method used in it. This year I'm a Biology/Pre-med student at AUB and guess what? I'm enjoying it.

When it comes to something you like , it doesn't matter how hard you'd have to study. And keep in mind that you have to study each and every day.

Think a little bit : Are you the type of guy who wants to sit in the office , battling with his code and lurking on stackoverflow?
Are you the type of guy who enjoys sitting in an office working for other engineers until he gets the opportunity to work independently ?
Are you into physics and maths and logical thinking? (In my opinion logical thinking in Biology is different than the one used in maths/physics).

On the other hand:
Are you the type of guy who doesn't mind spending years to study ? (So you MUST love what you're doing)
Are you the type of guy who is curious about life , about the human body , its mysteries and all this stuff?
Are you the type of guy who's ready to help when needed?
Do you enjoy solving biology exercises by connecting your knowledge to the actual problem and using this process to conclude with a logical explanation?

You see as the common knowledge indicates , biology demands a lot of memorizing , but it's not about memorizing , it's about knowing what to memorize and how things actually work.

If I was in your  place , I would have chosen SV/LS class. You will learn Maths/Phys/Bio and hence you'll get an idea of everything. Plus you can always get back to engineering if you want.

All the best.

az09za90za

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

the faculty of sciences this year had an entrance exam (due to "ifedet"), so next year there might be an exam, as for the "wasta" thing in the medicine concours, it's nonexistent, those who say it exists are those who fail, this year the one who ranked first in the concours got 18/20 and the last accepted student got about 16.5/20 and most of them got averages greater than 17 in the biology year.

As for being crowded,the faculty of science is kinda crowded, the others aren't, but you will find a place for sure, if the class fits 300 they put only 300 in it no more,and the seats are numbered and each one has his seat which changes place during the year (so everybody gets to sit in the front rows).

As for choosing, go with something you like and you're interested in, you don't won't to wake up 10 years later regretting the decision you did now.

i second that , i personally did the medicine councour , and i had no wasta , only my hard studies , and i succeed , the 1st got 18.11 . the last got 15.94 , and about the most getting averages greater than 17 is not true , there is people with 12 average studied hard in summer did pretty well with a 17 average in concour , and there is people with a 19 average failed the councour.

NuclearVision

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

thanks everyone!
everybody says go for the medecine concours after one year biology but its indeed risky, you guys say i need to grade between 16 and 18 i might be able to do it, but i cant rely on that.
@xazarian i always thought that SG will extract the logic from my brain, will teach me to use my brain to analyse and not to memorize. thats what everyone told me, even doctors and biology teachers close to me, most of them did SG.
thats why i chose SG granted that i could do anything after with a strong educational culture, including medecine, i didnt expect however that i have to take a risk and study one year before the concours, yes its my fault i should have asked earlier.

in fact, i am really enjoying advanced physics and mathematics, we take in SG. it might be a sign that i tend to like engineering, but really for me it doesnt matter, i like everything new, i can adapt my life to the circumstances. so what i am really in need of, is the essence of "which is better" in our country, in which engineers are considered inferior to doctors in terms of salary, and salary only(?)

i can't afford choosing a wrong major and wasting years of my life. thats why i need your help.

finally , thanks to everyone for your interest, it really means a lot to me : )

xAzarian

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

@Nuclear , I know doctors who receive like 10 patients per month maximum. It really depends , and in my opinion it's a matter of luck. But , of course : if you really like what you do , you do it better.
As if for SG/LS , in my school SG people didn't take Biology , so it was not a good idea to engage in a Bio major if you were in the SG class... But on the other side , I know a lot of people who were SG and are now doctors , even some people were LH. I know you probably won't believe it but it's true. It all depends on the motivation.

NuclearVision

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

can i apply for the medecine concours without SV/LS diploma?
i mean if i study the book alone, having passed the SG  and have the official diploma, can i do the concours or do i need some biology degree?

Last edited by NuclearVision (September 18 2014)

az09za90za

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

can i apply for the medecine concours without SV/LS diploma?
i mean if i study the book alone, having passed the SG  and have the official diploma, can i do the concours or do i need some biology degree?

you still need to do one year biology at science faculty.

BashLogic

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

do both.

the engineering and IT field is overwhelmed and the industry will be going thru a tremendous change during the upcoming 6 years.
in 2020, things will be nothing as what you know it now to be. the it industry is changing at all levels voiding many currently heavily used job roles. automation, orchestration, robotics, energy efficiency are going to turn the industries upside down. IT will totally change by 2020 and robotics and automation with become more common by the end of 2025 and mainstream at the latest 2030.

in the medical side, there is an upcoming huge growth in research and data analytics. so if you are a medical researcher and play your cards right, by the time you graduate in 2020, you would be in hot demand and have a job that will exist beyond 2030.

Last edited by BashLogic (September 19 2014)

NuclearVision

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

@az ok thanks, i had a friend who did the usj entrance exam as Sg he studied the book alone. i see it is not the case for uL.
@ bashlogic you are right, engineering field is not as stable, we never know what the future brings in, i mean it could even be positive change, not that engineering will be obsolete.
on the other side, people always Get sick.

that is exactly why i am confused what to do.

im gonna do my best in school now, i might get scholarships. otherwise i will apply for both concours faculty of science and engineering in LU.
thanks everyone, this enlightened me about the facts.

xAzarian

Member

Re: med school vs engineering

One more thing I'd like to say : In case you thought of going with the medicine plan , don't be afraid of the future.
I know doctors who graduated in the 60s , they still work A LOT. That's 50+ years of technology revolutions. You know people will always need other people.