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#26 August 8 2022


Re: Need an explanation on this connection issue

Hello, this thread caught my attention.

Looking up how *Asymetric* digital subscriber line works over *Asynchronous* tramission modes will come up with multiple results sharing similar information. With the limited number of channels and narrow bandwidth of this half-duplex technology over copper at the last mile of the journey, the witnessed behavior is normal.

Now adding multiple devices to the mix, and assuming those devices communicate wirelessly with a modem which does not support mu-mimo technology on upload and on download, the ping increases even more as older wireless transmission protocols suffer from the same half-duplex issue as ATM.

But even if I'm pinging from a wired devices, I witness the same increase in ping you might add, correct. This eliminates the half-duplex factor from wireless communications however, the modem follows a first in first out pattern in transmission usually hence an additional increase in ping.

It is also very important to consider noise and interference wireless and adsl tranmissions are susceptible to.

Ping counts the total time of the round trip from source to destination.
Traceroute pings all hops to show that beautiful map but misses to detail the reason behind the delay and the actual cause of it as traceroue functions over TCP/IP and is unaware of the underlying hardware transmission modes hence does not make it an efficient / conclusive testing mechanism.

Put simply, you can either upload or download at the same time and your data has to wait for its turn to move around hence the increased ping.

These mentioned phenomenons are barely noticible over technologies such as VDSL and GPON with high end modems due to higher bandwidth and improved protocols / hardware.

Solution? Discuss the possibility to upgrade to VDSL or Fiber with ogero support team if available in your area. They are very responsive over email and social media.

ADSL is a very old technology indeed. A plan was put to upgrade the last mile technology for all subscribers but budgets were cut by consecutive governments since 2017 hence the delivery of 30% only of the total goal according to Ogero officials who are aware of this.

Some impressive information worth mentioning:

Each DSLAM is connected to the core switches with multiple / redundant 10Gbps links to ensure no bottlenecks.

MPLS and DWDM interconnect central offices with with smallest offices over at least 40Gbps. Larger offices with larger capacities indeed.
Knowing how DWDM works implies how capacities can be virtually increased on demand..

International capacities are at 600Gbps+ with upgrades planned and in motion.

Ogero routes traffic through 3+ international providers based on best quality and capacity available. Yet some ISPs demand to be routed through specific international providers for certain "concerns".

Some local content distribution networks are deployed over the national network and more CDNs from more providers are being deployed as the writing of this reply to improve the quality of the connection and reduce latency.

PPPOE credentials are provided to subscribers over email with limited bundles over their responsibility yet not to unlimited bundles to combat fraudulent activity.

Programming centers are listed on the website and are present in 10 strategic locations close to everyone due to short-staffing.

Ogero's team provides support and maintenance free of charge to their subscribers, to ISPs and to ISP customers over the local network alike!!

Now with unawareness of the above mentioned, or just out of lazyness, the easiest getaway for ISPs and their affiliates is to badmouth Ogero and its short-staffed team who have to cater for everyone including private ISPs and their customers over Ogero's DSP.

@nuclearcat, I was expecting better explanation heik heik you went into technicalities and the badmouthing came as the cherry on top.
You in specific are aware what the fixed core network is capable of and how it was re-engineered with no bottlenecks. Yes, there is always room for improvement however, we are confident enough of the equipment in place and are confident that 90% of the issues faced by subscribers over the copper network are as detailed above. Afterall, it is no easy responsibility to cater for hundreds of thousands of officially accounted subscribers and multiple more hundreds of thousands that aren't ;)


#27 August 9 2022


Re: Need an explanation on this connection issue

@MustaMT let's go step by step, if you wish so.
I worked in this cesspit that is called ISP business in Lebanon for many years and i am glad i am not depending on it anymore, so i can speak  more.
While i had pleasant experience with you, @ikreidieh, some core engineers, some heroes who at any weather repair damages, i can say certain part of Ogero doing amazing job, but i cannot say same about rest of Ogero, especially those handling end-users.
It is not bad-mouthing, it is a matter of fact i have good reasons to be VERY unhappy.

<<i deleted part of telling story of corruption schemes that was running pre-Kreidieh era, but fact that involved company is still supplier and employees who was involved still working - is unpleasant, isn't it? not sure if you are aware about it>>

On end-users:
1) I remember stories, when ISP want to get user hooked, he is being delayed, because certain employee at centrale expect to be tipped.
2) I have endless stories, when private company DSL user as he is forced to use Ogero as (monopolistic) DSP, and user experience certain problems with line, Ogero support freely can say to user, that they will be glad to take such user on Ogero directly. This is insanely unfair competition, but... welcome to Lebanon. And this is hostile behavior as well, don't expect me praising such people.
3)I have several friends, who faced unfortunate fate of those ~10% who have line quality issues or being cut off due some line damage, and as soon as such thing happen - bad luck, some of them kept paying several month, using mobile internet, without any hope for repair. Good if they have some wasta and can push things...
4)The fact that unlimited bundles was(not sure if still) practically as dedicated, as Ogero dont have facilities(or knowledge?) to implement FUP, and ISP bulk bandwidth cost more, and those unlimited bundles are majority of Ogero users - classical case of unfair competition as well.

So, do you think it is healthy and ok? Should i be glad and thankful for that state of things and praise them?

PPPOE credentials are provided to subscribers over email with limited bundles over their responsibility yet not to unlimited bundles to combat fraudulent activity.

Sorry to say, but this trivial problem is solved everywhere in the world, but not in Ogero.
1)Should i say that i discussed it with Kreidieh and mentioned, how it is solved in other countries: just by locking up user to specific DSLAM port. If for all these years Ogero didnt make that possible, i'm sorry, but thats fault of team that work on this matters.
I'm not talking that any other ISP in the world implement TR-069 provisioning and their users dont need to go anywhere and waste time reconfiguring modems, this problem is just doesn't exist in proper DSL/FTTx network.
2)Is private ISPs to apply for DSL lines for their customers still need to upload that hilarious preformatted Excel file to the page that was developed in 199x?
3)Where is promised same level support portal for ISPs on DSL, as Ogero provide for it's users? ISPs till now dont have any access even to portion of info that direct Ogero users have, and unable to troubleshoot their users properly.

Thats few more examples, while one part of Ogero doing very well, other is incredibly lagging behind.

Now with unawareness of the above mentioned, or just out of lazyness, the easiest getaway for ISPs and their affiliates is to badmouth Ogero and its short-staffed team who have to cater for everyone including private ISPs and their customers over Ogero's DSP.

Ok as you force me to speak proof, before Ogero was short-staffed, i dont know if you are aware, i had quite tough conflict with old backbone team endless number of times.
"Nobody else except you complaining", "Yes we are policing bandwidth like this, you might lack 1Gbps , and get used to losing that"(that days it was $55000/month).
Or maybe incredible story where just i noticed that certain IP's are getting packetloss, and it ended up it was fault on one of 40G links in bundle where bandwidth was balanced?
You know that i spent more than 4 damn month trying to convince Ogero team about this, that issue exist, getting bounced back that "i am wasting their time", and finally i got out of patience and we got even for short moment on heated words with @ikreidieh?
Worse than that, same people perfectly know i discovered similar issue with balancing years ago, it was on Ipoque QoS, but yet again, they refused to believe me and kept playing ping-pong "issue on your side".
And every day of this 4 month i had to explain users, management and was trying to make mission impossible workarounds so customers dont face this packetloss.
So, excuse me, but there have been more than enough reasons to accuse Ogero of negligence and faults they refused to admit over the years.

But i have to admit, latest backbone team is doing incredibly well and i have no issues with them at all.
Can't say so about DSL/end-users part.
And to say last, if it was FAIR competition, i'm quite sure Ogero wont have so many end-users :)

Last edited by nuclearcat (August 9 2022)


#28 August 10 2022


Re: Need an explanation on this connection issue

Update - Moved from THGV to Ogero DSL, and all my problems got solved, surprise surprise.

What a joke of a "company".


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