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#1 July 24 2019

Badieh
Member

AMD Build

Hello everyone,

I am thinking about upgrading my old PC into the following:
AMD Ryzen 3700x -394$
Asus ROG Strix x470-F Gaming DDR4 AMD Ryzen AM4 -222$
RAM G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16 GB DDR4-3200 RAM (8x2) -146$
NZXT Aer RGB 2 Triple Starter 120mm 3 x RGB Fans with HUE 2 -106$
ASUS Radeon RX5700XT-8G -525$

Still missing a PSU 650W. I believe i can still use the case, DVDRW, and HDD/SSD that I own.

Prices are local without TVA. My budget to upgrade is around 1500$. Don't mind going a bit higher if the performance boost is great.

What do you think about this built? Or should I just go with i7-9700k / RTX 2070 instead ?

Thanks!

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#2 July 24 2019

TigerFox
Member

Re: AMD Build

Thats a pretty solid setup , however make sure everything will be fitting in the case well.

You've probably heard it or read before , you don't really need those cpu for gaming. Unless you do other cpu demanding tasks then you dont need these cpu at all. I'd go with the i7 8700k or amd 2600g . Yes , the 9700k or i9 can spit out 5 to 10 extra fps maybe , but for much more money. Price-to-profit ratio is realy low.

As for the gpu , I've only read very little about this new amd one , I'd prefer to go with the 2070. Very very similar performance and almost same price , while the 2070 has RTX technology it would be cool to experience it in games.

Last edited by TigerFox (July 24 2019)

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#3 July 24 2019

Tech Guru
Member

Re: AMD Build

I actually Have both systems

An i9 9900k & R9 3900x ,

I9 9900k running on a  Asus ROG Maximus Z390 Extreme XI & R9 3900X running on a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Xtreme. For Gaming I will go Intel , definitely the 1% low ( min fps) which matters the most for games are still better on Intel. Avg Fps ( min + max) / 2 are kind of miss leading.

The Min fps partity increases;  R9 3900 Zen 2 problem I faced is its high default  Vcore of 1.4v to reach its advertised boost   clocks. Making the head room to OC very difficult since it  reaches 100 degrees easily. While on i9 9900k and i7 9700k , they easily  cross 5Ghz +,  which increases the fps parity more.

Anandtech.com:
5blpQrD.jpg

PCGamers.com - 1080p Ultra with an RTX 2080ti (A CPU Bounded Testing) - Across 10 AAA Titles Games

fOfJfsY.jpg
6cX1mQz.jpg

For the 5700XT (Navi) , It has an RTX 2070 level of performance in traditional rasterization  without a Real Time Ray Tracing Capable Hardware , which is a bit of disappointing. AMD is currently developing a RTRT hybrid form which is not ready yet. In short , the Navi Series is kind of short lived. Many titles with soon releases announced at E3 2019 will support RTRT. From my experience running real time rendering ( at least on Metro Exodus RTRT Global Illumination or Shadow of TombRaider RTRT Shadows ) even on  low >>> compared to canned / backed rasterization  rendering.

PCGamer.com
P05mD1n.jpg

Still

Intel &  Nvidia on the Gaming Crown and even  on 14 nm ++++ for CoffeLake Resfreshers without any IPC increases (based on Aging 14nm Skylake Architecture ) and  12nm with Turing with Real Time Ray Tracing Capable Hardware vs 7nm (Navi  ) +  7nm (Zen 2) ,  both released a year later too.

Seems to me AMD they just kept true to their tradition:
- Massive hype, got kids foaming and frothing
- Fair price
- Great specs, inexplicably poor performance
- In line with Intel's previous generation, not the current


I suggest You Go

i7 9700k / I9 9900k / i7  8700k (OC'd to 5 Ghz on All 8 Cores) + RTX 2070 Super

A Decent Z390 Board (Asus ROG Maximus Hero XI or MSI Z390 Ace or Gigabyte Aorus Ultra / Master)

3200 Mhz Rams (CL 16 max)  2 by 8GB Dual Channel

Nvme PCIE x4 for the OS ( Samsung 970 Evo)

1 TB SSD ( Samsung 860 Evo)

4 TB HDD - WD Black Ed.

Decent PSU ( Seasonic or Corsair (HX / AX series)

Decent AIO ( NZXT Karken X62 or Corsair H115i Pro /Platnium - both 280mm)

Decent Thermal Paste - Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut

Last edited by Tech Guru (July 25 2019)

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#4 July 25 2019

bobo619
Member

Re: AMD Build

I would wait a month or so before buying a 5700XT as the blower style cooler is running a bit hot and they are using thermal pad instead of thermal paste. I would wait for a more high end AIB cooler solution for that like Asus, msi....(https://youtu.be/Ud8Bco0dk6Q). As for ram i would go for higher speeds because ryzen do benefit from higher memory clocks. As for gaming i would go for intel as they do clock much higher and will have higher fps in most games

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#5 July 26 2019

anayman_k7
Member

Re: AMD Build

If you dont need the extra cores of the 3700x I suggest you go with the 3600x which at 50$ extra gives you a 95w cooler and a higher boost clocks, 6 cores / 12 threads are very good for productivity workload also, in games the 3600x is very good and only beaten by Overclocked intel 9600k, 9700k and 9900k which with the added cost of the cooling and Z motherboard will probably be close the double of the Ryzen counterpart

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#6 July 26 2019

Tech Guru
Member

Re: AMD Build

anayman_k7 wrote:

If you dont need the extra cores of the 3700x I suggest you go with the 3600x which at 50$ extra gives you a 95w cooler and a higher boost clocks, 6 cores / 12 threads are very good for productivity workload also, in games the 3600x is very good and only beaten by Overclocked intel 9600k, 9700k and 9900k which with the added cost of the cooling and Z motherboard will probably be close the double of the Ryzen counterpart

3600x get behind the  i5 9600k(none OC)  in many titles not the i7 9700k and i9 9900k , untrue generalization mate.

3600 vs 3600x vs i5 9600k

https://youtu.be/Q0_DBUJrWl4


Stock to Stock

The i7 9700k and i9 9900k beat , even without any IPC change & on refined 14nm lithography vs 7nm , the R9 3900x(AMD current Top Dog )  in tightly threaded & lightly threaded situations which games often release , in which Anandtech highlighted and my own testing of 3900x vs i9 9900k . You Do not want to OC them at all , i9 9900k tips as boost clocks without any OC 

5Ghz on the 1st & 2nd Cores
4.8Ghz in the 3rd & 4th Cores
4.7Ghz on the on 5th , 6th , 7th , and 8th Core


Similarly  i7 9700k

4.9Ghz on the 1st & 2nd Cores
4.7Ghz on the 3rd & 4th Cores
4.6 Ghz on the 5th , 6th , 7th , and 8th Core

Even

The 9700 (non K) that comes with a Cooler can boost to 4.8Ghz ( On All Cores) with MCE Enabled.

The Three Options < 3900x price , Zen 2 are not for masses now as AMD usual trend. Added with X570 to fully utilize max features including (PCI E Gen 4) which to me a  marketing gimmick and selling hype , not even an RTX 2080ti can saturate PCI E Gen 3 16x Bandwidth (32 GB/Sec) and PCI E Gen 5 is already ready.


They Still Lag behind & ironically vs an aging  14nm Skylake based architecture.

For the Prices , they are not any more for the "masses" : -World Wide MSRP

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X: $499 (about £390, AU$720)

AMD Ryzen 7 3800X: $399 (about £310, AU$580)

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X: $329 (about £260, AU$480)

AMD Ryzen 5 3600X: $249 (about £200, AU$360)

AMD Ryzen 5 3600: $199 (about £160, AU$290).

+  new x570 board for the extra lanes of PIC Gen 4 & speed utilization.

i7 9700 ~ USD 330
I7 9700k ~ USD 360
i9 9900k ~ USD 488

Truth hurts vs fake perceptions of marketing hype. Always catch a year later with AMD.

For cooling even an EVO 212 is suffient to cool at OC CPU , when you have the proper competence to tweak the Bios settings for a proper OC.

Last edited by Tech Guru (July 27 2019)

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#7 July 26 2019

Tech Guru
Member

Re: AMD Build

Nice Promo Indeed for RTX Super Cards Line  , ~ 120 USD Freebies

vT6rscV.jpg

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#8 July 26 2019

TigerFox
Member

Re: AMD Build

@TechGuru , question aside, one can undervolt and overclock a CPU or GPU ?

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#9 July 27 2019

Tech Guru
Member

Re: AMD Build

TigerFox wrote:

@TechGuru , question aside, one can undervolt and overclock a CPU or GPU ?

Sure ,

Basically if you win the " silicon lottery " you can reach advertised boost clocks with less heat dissipation when you underclock the Vcore.  Also , if you don't have a " golden silicon " , you can delid the cpu and apply liquid metal (Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut ) then underclock the Vcrore and apply an OC.  Delidding removes the CPU’s IHS (integrated heat spreader). By removing the IHS , direct cooling to the CPU will take place , there will be no layer in between. Option 3 is to good custom water cooling (From EKs ) for the CPU/Graphic Card , the chances of underclocking and OCing will increases vs Air Cooling & AIOs.

Last edited by Tech Guru (July 27 2019)

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#10 July 27 2019

TigerFox
Member

Re: AMD Build

Tech Guru wrote:

... the chances of underclocking and OCing will increases vs Air Cooling & AIOs.

How is cooling related to undervolting and overclocking ? Do you just mean that this is the best way to get best thermals in general ?

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#11 July 27 2019

Tech Guru
Member

Re: AMD Build

TigerFox wrote:
Tech Guru wrote:

... the chances of underclocking and OCing will increases vs Air Cooling & AIOs.

How is cooling related to undervolting and overclocking ? Do you just mean that this is the best way to get best thermals in general ?


When You OC , the temperatures  will raise up you need to counter that to minimize the chances of thermal throtlling.

Counter that with

Proper Cooling
Good VRM MotherBoard (#Of Phases / Amp per Phase)
Thermal Paste Used
Delidding /None Delidding
Good Bios Settings

In the opposite you can underclock (undervolt in other terms) and OC

Silicon Lottery
Delid & UnderVolt and OC (Less Heat)
Good Cooling , Under Clock and OC

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#12 July 28 2019

Tech Guru
Member

Re: AMD Build

Here Is the Current Situation Here:

5700 XT (Blower Style) @ 460 USD - Mojitech , Expect 500 USD - 530 USD TTC  for AIB OC Variants / Custom PCB

RTX 2700 SUPER (Zotac AMP OC AIB ) with Two Free Recent AAA Games ( Wolfenstein: Youngblood & Control) @ 650 USD TTC - PC&Parts

Personally I will Go Seal the Deal of the RTX 2070 Super

Similar Performance In Raw Traditional  Rasterization On Par or  notch ahead

AIB Custom Cooling /PCB

Real Time Ray Tracing Capable Hardware)

For the Sake of  150 USD Max Difference .

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#13 July 28 2019

TokMe3HrsToSolveChallenge
Member

Re: AMD Build

Tech Guru wrote:

RTX 2700 SUPER (Zotac AMP OC AIB ) with Two Free Recent AAA Games ( Wolfenstein: Youngblood & Control) @ 650 USD TTC - PC&Parts


Why do they have a 30% markup when taxes is 11% its msrp is supposed to be $500 before taxes, they are basically making us pay for the "free" games

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#14 July 28 2019

Tech Guru
Member

Re: AMD Build

TokMe3HrsToSolveChallenge wrote:
Tech Guru wrote:

RTX 2700 SUPER (Zotac AMP OC AIB ) with Two Free Recent AAA Games ( Wolfenstein: Youngblood & Control) @ 650 USD TTC - PC&Parts


Why do they have a 30% markup when taxes is 11% its msrp is supposed to be $500 before taxes, they are basically making us pay for the "free" games


Base Price (Amazon) : 500 USD
Shipment :  35 USD (Aramex - Shop&Ship)
Customs Tariffs:  40 USD

500 + 35 + 40 = 575 USD ( Arriving to You)

PC &  Parts : 650 USD / 1.11 = 585 USD , Bulk Contracts ~ 500 USD , His Market Markup ~ 85 USD

(585 -  500) / 500 × 100% = 17%  profit + Local Warranty ,  Solid Deal Still Local - without the games.

Last edited by Tech Guru (July 28 2019)

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#15 July 28 2019

TokMe3HrsToSolveChallenge
Member

Re: AMD Build

Tech Guru wrote:
TokMe3HrsToSolveChallenge wrote:
Tech Guru wrote:

RTX 2700 SUPER (Zotac AMP OC AIB ) with Two Free Recent AAA Games ( Wolfenstein: Youngblood & Control) @ 650 USD TTC - PC&Parts


Why do they have a 30% markup when taxes is 11% its msrp is supposed to be $500 before taxes, they are basically making us pay for the "free" games


Base Price (Amazon) : 500 USD
Shipment :  35 USD (Aramex - Shop&Ship)
Customs Tariffs:  40 USD

500 + 35 + 40 = 575 USD ( Arriving to You)

PC &  Parts : 650 USD / 1.11 = 585 USD , Bulk Contracts ~ 500 USD , His Market Markup ~ 85 USD

(585 -  500) / 500 × 100% = 17%  profit + Local Warranty ,  Solid Deal Still Local - without the games.

I want to order THIS but how did u calculate the customs to be 40 usd? (from previous orders online they would take 21% assuming 11% tax and 10% fee) if I can get it for around $600 I'll order it online im not in a hurry.

also I sent u a msg on LebGeeks can you check it

Last edited by TokMe3HrsToSolveChallenge (July 28 2019)

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#16 July 29 2019

TokMe3HrsToSolveChallenge
Member

Re: AMD Build

actually they just replied their zotac 2070 super is $598.29 TTC thats an amazing price

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#17 July 29 2019

Tech Guru
Member

Re: AMD Build

TokMe3HrsToSolveChallenge wrote:

actually they just replied their zotac 2070 super is $598.29 TTC thats an amazing price


Awesome

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#18 July 30 2019

Tech Guru
Member

Re: AMD Build

AMD has confirmed that Ryzen processors have a mix of fast and slow cores. Well That Sucks Again and Teach You That Riding " Hype Trains"  and " Pre Release Marketing" Slides is  Jeopardizing vs Actual Reality.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/am … ,6253.html

7nm cannot catch up with 14nm ++++  based on old Skylake Architecture. Still Intel in tighthly and lightly threaded situations is ahead due to their core architecture engineering.

500 USD 7nm vs 360 USD 14nm ( Released a Year Earlier)

https://youtu.be/y8_OLaiHgzY

Last edited by Tech Guru (July 30 2019)

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#19 July 30 2019

anayman_k7
Member

Re: AMD Build

3900x is not what you should get if you only want to game, Ryzen 5 3600x is the choice for that, for 250$ (including a cooler) it matches the i7 8700k that is more expensive and require more cost for a cooler

The most majority of gamers are not willing to pay 900$ for CPU / Z Mobo / WaterCoooler to be able to game at the end, AMD has won a huge amount of the market because of that. Intel is struggling even to get 10nm in the market and their price cuts shows that they are struggling in competing with AMD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0uB17Io2is

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#20 August 4 2019

Tech Guru
Member

Re: AMD Build

anayman_k7 wrote:

3900x is not what you should get if you only want to game, Ryzen 5 3600x is the choice for that, for 250$ (including a cooler) it matches the i7 8700k that is more expensive and require more cost for a cooler

The most majority of gamers are not willing to pay 900$ for CPU / Z Mobo / WaterCoooler to be able to game at the end, AMD has won a huge amount of the market because of that. Intel is struggling even to get 10nm in the market and their price cuts shows that they are struggling in competing with AMD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0uB17Io2is


Still the i9 9900k beats it in gaming and on better 1%  low in the majority of games ,  I am not talking from out of this world or giving an Intel side ,  since you favor AMD doesnot mean Zen 2 is ahead. They still lag in thighthly threaded and lighthly threaded situations behind intel. Added to the OC headroom that Intel has ,will give an wider gap in the fps parity. AMD Zen2 is already running at nearly max settings out of the box to reach its max performance limit and turbo boost ,  Coffelake /Coffelake Refresher has mile as a cuhsion to hit their max limit.  This is a disgrace for AMD indeed due a new architecture + 7nm lithography vs 14nm. This circumvent to a root reason core architecture Intel has taken and proven successful mesh architecture that is implemented in Skylake  Days and on , that implements a synchronous, high-bandwidth, and scalable 2-dimensional array of half rings. Note that I own an I9 9900k + ROG Asus Z390 Maximus Extreme XI and an R9 3900x With an X570 Arous Xtreme ,  no blind marketing hype and fictional perceptions. I favor performance whether X or Y ,A or B.

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#21 August 4 2019

Tech Guru
Member

Re: AMD Build

anayman_k7 wrote:

3900x is not what you should get if you only want to game, Ryzen 5 3600x is the choice for that, for 250$ (including a cooler) it matches the i7 8700k that is more expensive and require more cost for a cooler

The most majority of gamers are not willing to pay 900$ for CPU / Z Mobo / WaterCoooler to be able to game at the end, AMD has won a huge amount of the market because of that. Intel is struggling even to get 10nm in the market and their price cuts shows that they are struggling in competing with AMD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0uB17Io2is

Check This Out

AMD has confirmed that Ryzen processors have a mix of fast and slow cores. Well That Sucks Again and Teach You That Riding " Hype Trains"  and " Pre Release Marketing" Slides is  Jeopardizing vs Actual Reality.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/am … ,6253.html

In Other Terms ,

When You are you down on the boost clock of 4.6 Ghz (max on all Zen 2 Family)  on the 1st Core only of the R9 3900x that already struggles to hit and downgrading clock speeds beneth the 1st core clock frequency & beyond. + You add a 25% IPC boost on Zen + vs the i9 9900k that reaches easy 5Ghz easy without IPC increase.

5Ghz on the 1st & 2nd Cores
4.8Ghz in the 3rd & 4th Cores 
4.7Ghz on the on 5th , 6th , 7th , and 8th Core

This balances the IPC boost & you see Coffe Lake Refreshers are still ahead on tightly threaded & lightly threaded situations.

Zen 2 should have created the major gap if it hitted 5ghz + the 25% IPC , not lower the core clocks + add IPC increase. Which indeed very disappointing for 7nm die shrink lithography

Lower Clocks +  25% IPC on par or got beaten by High clocks across all cores + 0% IPC , and on a 14nm too.

Last edited by Tech Guru (August 4 2019)

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#22 August 20 2019

Badieh
Member

Re: AMD Build

Thank you all for your replies. I was taking this whole time researching.

It is true that the i7-9700k is a beast when it comes to gaming, however, the 3700x isn't far off, especially if I turn off SMT. As such, getting the x570 motherboard would give me a better chance in future upgrades over the Z390.

So far, this is the build I am considering:
CPU: Ryzen 3700x
MOBO: Gigabyte x570 Aorus Elite
RAM: HyperX Predator 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3600 RAM
GPU: Zotac ZT-T20710F-10P GAMING GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER Twin Fan 8GB (or MSI depending on the price mojitech will be selling it off).
PSU: NZXT NP-1PM-E850A-EU E850 850W PSU (Overkill i know, but should be good for now and later)
CASE: My old Cooler Master Enforcer.
SSD/HDD: Using my old SSD and HDD. Should be fine for now.
Optional: Getting 2x Aerocool REV Red Dual Ring 12CM Fan and 1x Aerocool 20CM Silent Master Red LED Fan to replace the fans on my old case.

I picked the RTX 2070 super over the 5700xt simply because it contains ray tracing. However, I am just waiting for Mojitech to get the MSI to compare the price with PC&Parts and Expert-Zone. PC&Parts selling the ZOTAC for 535 (without TVA but only with complete systems), and Expert-Zone is selling the MSI for a whooping price of 700$ (TVA included).

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#23 August 20 2019

kareem_nasser
Member

Re: AMD Build

I don't understand the hype around RT. It has been there for years and its implementation in real time is recent and pretty much limited, let alone run it properly on even the high-end GPUs at a good frame rate.

What i am trying to say is we are actually paying extra for a new rendering feature still in its infancy (Beta testing!?).

Last edited by kareem_nasser (August 20 2019)

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#24 August 20 2019

Badieh
Member

Re: AMD Build

kareem_nasser wrote:

I don't understand the hype around RT. It has been there for years and its implementation in real time is recent and pretty much limited, let alone run it properly on even the high-end GPUs at a good frame rate.

What i am trying to say is we are actually paying extra for a new rendering feature still in its infancy (Beta testing!?).

If i want to buy the 5700xt from lebanon, it will cost me just as much as the ZOTAC 2070 super.
5700xt is 525$ without TVA
ZOTAC 2070 super is 535$ without TVA.

Ordering online from abroad might differ.

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#25 August 20 2019

kareem_nasser
Member

Re: AMD Build

Badieh wrote:
kareem_nasser wrote:

I don't understand the hype around RT. It has been there for years and its implementation in real time is recent and pretty much limited, let alone run it properly on even the high-end GPUs at a good frame rate.

What i am trying to say is we are actually paying extra for a new rendering feature still in its infancy (Beta testing!?).

If i want to buy the 5700xt from lebanon, it will cost me just as much as the ZOTAC 2070 super.
5700xt is 525$ without TVA
ZOTAC 2070 super is 535$ without TVA.

Ordering online from abroad might differ.

If so then it makes sense. But still the coming GPUs with more dedicated RT Cores will provide better support and by that time AMD should be on par in RT performance. Taking into consideration the current limited support of RT and DLSS also.

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