LebGeeks

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#1 March 1

Elitism Guru
Member

Cold climate heat pumps

What's your experience on heat pumps/AC for heating?

Back in Canada I had a Mitsubishi HyperHeat working fine down to around -12c without any issues (-30C min), unfortunately I don't see any HVAC companies selling any cold climate options for us in the mountains here in Lebanon.
I currently have a Panasonic AC which is most likely optimized for sea level middle East climate, it starts to degrade quickly at 7 degrees.
Many people around me are using central heating or these far infrared heaters with a very expensive bill at the end of the month, around a 1 liter per hour Diesel, and yet it's still cold but bearable. Also those far infrared heater like the Airrex cost as much a mini split.
I'm adding 10cm insulation soon, it shocks me how no one thinks about insulation here. Having two identical 26 SQM rooms, one with Rockwool, other is plain concrete, insulated room maintains heat overnight till morning 20c to 18c, concrete drops to 12c, split has to cycle now as it's oversized (installed before insulation). Oh and don't get me started on how horrible the first insulation installation was, air gaps, polystyrene, too many drywall metal studs! Didn't find any qualified company to do it, even when money is not an issue, so I did it myself.

When both private and public electricity are down which happens rarely, we have a cheap Diesel 4kva generator to backup, and guess what, it still uses way less diesel, around 0.6 l per hour, oh and providing electricity as well.

On another note, it happened a few times when visitors were surprised that we're using electricity to heat, correlating it to resistance heating, although it uses at least 4 times less power. 1.5 KW heating 50sqm on heat pump, resistance is equivalent to around 6 KW. It seems hard for some to understand that there is heat out there even when its -50 C, that's what a heat pump do, it pumps heat from the outside.

With the new law regarding private electricity rates, there is no excuse now.

12+ hours a day minisplit averages 90$ a month WITH other electricity stuff like refrigerator, 3kw dryer. 20$ public + 70$ private company (no dryer)

Edit: to add, mini splits vary a lot, my grandparents Haier non inverter shit it's pants at just 10c, installation plays a huge role as well, they abandoned the idea because of it. Our small Fujitsu had the same heat output at -3C in 2012, too bad it's only 9kBTU (rated min -15C) that is available at the time.

Last edited by Elitism Guru (March 1)

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#2 March 2

nuclearcat
Member

Re: Cold climate heat pumps

Perfect post, i think should be sticked as "Let's be energy efficient now".
Add also if you opt-in solar heater + solar energy, you will save even more.
I see a lot of discussion over on-grid and off-grid and solutions.

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#3 April 3

Elitism Guru
Member

Re: Cold climate heat pumps

Any idea how EDL deals with on grid inverter metering? Do you need special service point meter?

Edit: simplification

Last edited by Elitism Guru (April 4)

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#4 April 4

DNA
Member

Re: Cold climate heat pumps

you mean the meter only measures the true power used and not the total power or apparent power?

Last edited by DNA (April 4)

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#5 April 4

Elitism Guru
Member

Re: Cold climate heat pumps

Yes, bi-directional meter are quite different from net meters, net meters account for delivered electricity, stopping reactive power metering (in which it is pretty bad when delivering more than 80%) True power in delivery, apparent receiving. Regular electro-mechanical meters in Lebanon are true power, no? correct me if I am wrong.
*Delivering as solar to grid, receiving as grid to solar.

Last edited by Elitism Guru (April 4)

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#6 April 4

DNA
Member

Re: Cold climate heat pumps

am not sure exactly for bidirectional but i don't think the meter accounts for reactive power in either direction
what am sure about is that home users shouldn't be charged for reactive power and i think that's the case in most countries i will test my meter, if i am charged for reactive power then its a ripoff home users shouldn't care about pf correction.

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#7 April 7

Elitism Guru
Member

Re: Cold climate heat pumps

DNA wrote:

am not sure exactly for bidirectional but i don't think the meter accounts for reactive power in either direction
what am sure about is that home users shouldn't be charged for reactive power and i think that's the case in most countries i will test my meter, if i am charged for reactive power then its a ripoff home users shouldn't care about pf correction.

AFAIK having higher PF on regular induction meters measures low under 0.9, but having online grid tie inverter (lagging) may increase error that could account more. No response yet from EDL, their website seems down, even the "generators" kWh tariffs are no longer respected in my area (500LBP). Guess I'll have to go with offline inverter setup once solar is installed. I'm quite skeptical of the "Growatt" brands they sell here. Any store other reputable than Narinco you recommend?
Thanks.

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