LebGeeks

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

Some shops have old stocks bought at the current official exchange rate of 1507.5 and selling it at black market dollars to LBP equvialence of 2400 - 2500 LBP. Pure Theft ,  Forgetting that the 90% of Lebanese are paid on LBP ,  lost 40-44%  of their current purchasing power , some lost 50%  of their salaries ,  and some got laid off.

I really didnt expected such level of ignorance even here.
I explained before why it is not theft. Its funny, how i write why it is stupid and silly to assume it is theft, and yet again same post.

More Laughable are people listing used items ( electronics or not electronics ) on Facebook & OLX  , & saying only USD or current market rate. Pure Theft

Absolutely agree on this point.

All local shops pay their employees salaries at 1500 LBP or cut their employess salaries by half. Reason :  People are not buying ?! Stop the elusive selling startegies and your profit margins will regain some momentum. Pure Theft

Better to drop items from Amazon now a days vs local maneuvers of shops "riding the wave"  in this economic stagnation.

I am personally contacting

Customer Protection at the Ministry of Economic and State Security to  report this theft.

You remind me "bolshevik" from 1917 in Russia, when the peasants and the poors killed everyone who was considered rich or simply prosperous, with agenda "split up and give away their wealth". Suddenly, after such a strategy, a terrible famine appeared  and millions of poor people died.
I will be simple and probably rude - you do not understand anything in economics and business, you dont bother to read explanations in thread just few posts away, and yet you have the conscience to give "advices" how shops should run business.

Basic math, probably on level of preschool, if you are unable to scroll back a bit:
1)You bought 100 components for 1500LL each. Spent 150000LL.
2)You put profit 500LL per each and want to sell them 2000LL. Means 200000LL earned, 50000LL will go to salaries, etc.
3)Exchange rate changed, importers selling today new components at 2600LL each (because importers, lets say not getting profit, just pay $1 for them, so they CANNOT sell you 1500LL).
4)Shop listen to business guru Tech Guru and sold sticks same 1500LL. He paid salaries/etc 50000LL, now he have in hand 150000LL
5)MATH TIME! And a time of miracles (for Tech Guru). How many memory sticks at 2600LL can he buy again with his 150000LL?

Last edited by nuclearcat (March 1 2020)

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

To start, form a committee that includes enough influential people and those who are able to make decisions with respect to each society group.
And who dont waste time arguing, cursing, throwing baseless accusations, excuses and etc.

I was in a store in mar elias yesterday and the guy tried to convince me that an external drive I've been seeing at his shelve for two years is brand new. It even had the same ink writing mark. It was 100,000LL last year and now it is 150,000LL
He has a lot of two and three year old stock being sold at 2500LL per dollar from very old MS keyboards, crappy Chinese knockoff mice that were imported in 2016, etc.. etc... and have been collecting dust ever since.

Also read Tech Guru's comment.

But fine, Ok, let's put our difference in opinion aside and assume for the sake of the argument that there is no old stock and everything was imported within the last two months. What do you feel is the first step in voicing our suggestion that a committee of influential people should be formed?

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

To start, form a committee that includes enough influential people and those who are able to make decisions with respect to each society group.
And who dont waste time arguing, cursing, throwing baseless accusations, excuses and etc.

I was in a store in mar elias yesterday and the guy tried to convince me that an external drive I've been seeing at his shelve for two years is brand new. It even had the same ink writing mark. It was 100,000LL last year and now it is 150,000LL
He has a lot of two and three year old stock being sold at 2500LL per dollar from very old MS keyboards, crappy Chinese knockoff mice that were imported in 2016, etc.. etc... and have been collecting dust ever since.

Also read Tech Guru's comment.

But fine, Ok, let's put our difference in opinion aside and assume for the sake of the argument that there is no old stock and everything was imported within the last two months. What do you feel is the first step in voicing our suggestion that a committee of influential people should be formed?

Prices of portable HDD doesnt change much.
2018.08     0.0000249     2018     Feb14     Web         NewEgg.com     Seagate          3.5     SATA-3         4000000     $99.49
2019.08     0.0000247     2019     Feb11     Web         NewEgg.com     Seagate         3.5     SATA-3         4000000     $98.99
Now it is $89.99.

2600/1500=1.733 ratio
100000*1.73=173000LL price as should be on new exchange rate
So, 150000 - it is with discount, technically he cut his profit or devalued item due age.
Also if it is on shelve for two years, if it is not opened, so it is _brand new_, technically he is correct. Yes it is not cutting edge technology, but it is new, not used.
They might collect dust, but this is in most cases hard earned money people did abroad and invested in this stock, and they believe they might sell it one day. If portable HDD price might be devalued due progress , keyboards and mices wont, unless there is some breakthrough in specific technology. Like PS/2 keyboards was devalued at some moment.
Such guys is not like big business, who can say "who cares" and write off stuff from balance, make sale 40% discount to sell at least something, as their profit margin allows that.

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

So back to the topic at hand. What do you feel is the first step in voicing our suggestion that a committee of influential people should be formed? How do we trigger such as thing?

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

So back to the topic at hand. What do you feel is the first step in voicing our suggestion that a committee of influential people should be formed? How do we trigger such as thing?

First form a core from most sane people, create rules that will prevent the committee from turning into another circus.
Then get to all your connections, and try to convince to join.
Prepare a preliminary program/plan/proposals from everyone, discuss the details online (especially points where people disagree), and when the stuff has matured to the right moment, it’s worth meeting somewhere, discussing on meeting, voting and making list of proposals that will be presented to the government in an open letter, with the signatures of all participants.

Last edited by nuclearcat (March 1 2020)

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

So back to the topic at hand. What do you feel is the first step in voicing our suggestion that a committee of influential people should be formed? How do we trigger such as thing?

First form a core from most sane people, create rules that will prevent the committee from turning into another circus.
Then get to all your connections, and try to convince to join.
Prepare a preliminary program/plan/proposals from everyone, discuss the details online (especially points where people disagree), and when the stuff has matured to the right moment, it’s worth meeting somewhere, discussing on meeting, voting and making list of proposals that will be presented to the government in an open letter, with the signatures of all participants.

Let's take this step by step. "form a core". Where would we gather people to form this core portion of a committee? What would their incentive to join be?

Also please don't say "look online". People only have time for discussions online on Sundays and while carrying their phones during bathroom breaks during the week.

Last edited by VincentKeyboard (March 1 2020)

Tech Guru

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

Some shops have old stocks bought at the current official exchange rate of 1507.5 and selling it at black market dollars to LBP equvialence of 2400 - 2500 LBP. Pure Theft ,  Forgetting that the 90% of Lebanese are paid on LBP ,  lost 40-44%  of their current purchasing power , some lost 50%  of their salaries ,  and some got laid off.

I really didnt expected such level of ignorance even here.
I explained before why it is not theft. Its funny, how i write why it is stupid and silly to assume it is theft, and yet again same post.

More Laughable are people listing used items ( electronics or not electronics ) on Facebook & OLX  , & saying only USD or current market rate. Pure Theft

Absolutely agree on this point.

All local shops pay their employees salaries at 1500 LBP or cut their employess salaries by half. Reason :  People are not buying ?! Stop the elusive selling startegies and your profit margins will regain some momentum. Pure Theft

Better to drop items from Amazon now a days vs local maneuvers of shops "riding the wave"  in this economic stagnation.

I am personally contacting

Customer Protection at the Ministry of Economic and State Security to  report this theft.

You remind me "bolshevik" from 1917 in Russia, when the peasants and the poors killed everyone who was considered rich or simply prosperous, with agenda "split up and give away their wealth". Suddenly, after such a strategy, a terrible famine appeared  and millions of poor people died.
I will be simple and probably rude - you do not understand anything in economics and business, you dont bother to read explanations in thread just few posts away, and yet you have the conscience to give "advices" how shops should run business.

Basic math, probably on level of preschool, if you are unable to scroll back a bit:
1)You bought 100 components for 1500LL each. Spent 150000LL.
2)You put profit 500LL per each and want to sell them 2000LL. Means 200000LL earned, 50000LL will go to salaries, etc.
3)Exchange rate changed, importers selling today new components at 2600LL each (because importers, lets say not getting profit, just pay $1 for them, so they CANNOT sell you 1500LL).
4)Shop listen to business guru Tech Guru and sold sticks same 1500LL. He paid salaries/etc 50000LL, now he have in hand 150000LL
5)MATH TIME! And a time of miracles (for Tech Guru). How many memory sticks at 2600LL can he buy again with his 150000LL?

Your math doesnot have a practicle sense of how the Lebanese market usually works. It is a theoratical macro economical sort of analysis. I have a wide connections with many suppliers ,  resllers , & distributors with a a job as an advisor to the NSSF , Ministry of Economy , Ministry of Finance , & the Higher Council of Customs. 

More than half of items being sold now are imported prior to Septermber 2019

Many shops are using the "smuggler way " of importing things through Turkey to Syria and than to Lebanon - طرق التهريب الغير شرعيه - fleeing away from customs tariffs.

Many shops are registering their employees @ min wage salary of 675,000 LBP to pay less contribution fees , jeopardizing their real end of service value.

Many shops are injecting "fictional expenses" to deflate their netincome & pay less on the yearly net income tax.

Many shops are buying (Vat paid) and declaring that their sales volumes are decreasing ( collected Vat) to get the Vat difference from the ministry of finance ( Vat Paid - Vat Collected )

Leave utopianism aside & think Lebanese.

Last edited by Tech Guru (March 1 2020)

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

Your math doesnot have a practicle sense of how the Lebanese market usually works. It is a theoratical macro economical sort of analysis. I have a wide connections with many suppliers ,  resllers , & distributors with a a job as an advisor to the NSSF , Ministry of Economy , Ministry of Finance , & the Higher Council of Customs. 

More than half of items being sold now are imported prior to Septermber 2019

Many shops are using the "smuggler way " of importing things through Turkey to Syria and than to Lebanon - طرق التهريب الغير شرعيه - fleeing away from customs tariffs.

Many shops are registering their employees @ min wage salary of 675,000 LBP to pay less contribution fees , jeopardizing their real end of service value.

Many shops are injecting "fictional expenses" to deflate their netincome & pay less on the yearly net income tax.

Many shops are buying (Vat paid) and declaring that their sales volumes are decreasing ( collected Vat) to get the Vat difference from the ministry of finance ( Vat Paid - Vat Collected )

Leave utopianism aside & think Lebanese.

1)Sorry, i dont buy anymore typical bullshit (in Lebanon especially) about how (person) know everybody and it means (person) know how everything works.
If you ran this business successfully (and cleanly) before, and kept selling stock at old, 1500LL rates, and didn't bankrupted - then i might re-evaluate my information. But I’m quite sure that you don’t have such business, and you have no idea what you’re talking about, except "theory" in your specific one-sided version.
I'm realistic, i know if businesses run such way, in most cases it means its only way they can survive. My own experience - i tried to import stuff "full legal way", it got stuck in customs for few month and then fees was so high, that its impossible my competitors did same import legal way. I sold this stock(network stuff) with losses and it was end of my such "business" here.
So i know it on my own skin, unlike you.
2)It seemed to me, i have not heard your protests and rants about these terrible violations earlier? Or were you just happy with the prices and you turned a blind eye to these problems?

Last edited by nuclearcat (March 1 2020)

wollyka

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

The only way that shops can sell imported products at 1500LL if:
•They want to close their businesses and they are liquidating their inventory at actual cost or above actual cost with a small profit
•They will import new products at 1500LL(impossible unless they get import subsidies which is out of the question currently )
•They will have to import less and less since they cashing LL and paying their suppliers with USD at current market rates (not sustainable)
•They will have to import through illegal ways and not paying any taxes or customs but even with that they still have to increase their prices unless the unpaid fees and customs are equal or more than to the depreciation of the Lira

Last edited by wollyka (March 2 2020)

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

wollyka, exactly, you understand business "core" perfectly.
For others, who dont accept reality, the first step to solving problems is to stop rejecting reality and stop trying to make illusions and stop bending things to your side on expense of others(sellers in this example), realize please that the situation is deadly bad.
Better find sane people, and start a discussion and a committee.
At the moment, all the proposals that I have seen are, at best, an attempt to "pull the blanket to their side." Like: "look our guy is best for telecom minister!" (and this guy own telecom business and best he will do - align laws such way, that his "bros" will have better cut of remaining market).
Or pushing specific politically affiliated people with hope he will give this group sweet seats.
You can be better choice for your country, fellow geeks.

Last edited by nuclearcat (March 2 2020)

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

wollyka, exactly, you understand business "core" perfectly.
For others, who dont accept reality, the first step to solving problems is to stop rejecting reality and stop trying to make illusions and stop bending things to your side on expense of others(sellers in this example), realize please that the situation is deadly bad.
Better find sane people, and start a discussion and a committee.
At the moment, all the proposals that I have seen are, at best, an attempt to "pull the blanket to their side." Like: "look our guy is best for telecom minister!" (and this guy own telecom business and best he will do - align laws such way, that his "bros" will have better cut of remaining market).
Or pushing specific politically affiliated people with hope he will give this group sweet seats.
You can be better choice for your country, fellow geeks.

How can one find a committee of sane people when half the people think the rise of the dollar price is a good thing and are just abusing the situation, and the other half are suffering?
Which half are you in?
How do we convince people that the dollar price needs to go back down to 1500?

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

How can one find a committee of sane people when half the people think the rise of the dollar price is a good thing and are just abusing the situation, and the other half are suffering?
Which half are you in?
How do we convince people that the dollar price needs to go back down to 1500?

I am none of that.
It is not good thing definitely, but it is unavoidable self-regulating process.  You can't say good or bad for natural, expected process. It will keep rising and hitting people until purchasing power (import) match export value. If nothing done - it might reach such levels, that it will cause terrible famine.
What is really bad - no real action is taken to improve trade balance, instead of proposing solutions, people keep fighting as before.
1500LL to USD it is not something somebody just decide and put. It is how LL is worth. Before it was backed by burning(technically stealing) deposits in banks, and all country benefited from it (except depositors). Now there is no such source anymore, whole Lebanon is sitting with naked butt and its time to think quick, how to make something valuable and export it.

Last edited by nuclearcat (March 2 2020)

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

We can make food. Lebanon produces high quality apples, potatoes, and such. We can also produce grains but if I am not mistaken, they are recently growing at odd off-standard sizes. The issue with grains though is that I can imagine Turkey ships for lower prices and therefore there is no incentive for Lebanese producers to export. And with increasing prices, it makes more sense to exploit high prices locally than export at lower prices.
I can picture exporting pharmaceuticals too. But what is the value in exporting if one can sell locally at higher prices?

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

High quality veggies and fruits - i have some doubts. Some - yes, some is really not up to date tech and quality (mostly because of tech) is so-so comparing with competitors. Like for example i checked some mediterranean/african countries, they have very up to date tech(controlled atmosphere, precise biochemicals, automated farming, etc), and because of that they can ship to Russia their veggies and fruits from afar, but Lebanon is not, cause most veggies from Lebanon, even it is closer - wont pass strict sanitary controls at end of shipping.
I researched also on number "fertile land per capita", Lebanon numbers are not so good. Mostly because major part of land is rocks and high population.
Compare with Georgia, who has good climate, this number is much higher, and yet still they need to import lot of stuff.
But there is some hopes, some Lebanese produce is good, hydroponics can be done (and water available, especially if not wasted), but on my opinion major issue is LAWS, and then investments technology.
I doubt anybody will invest in new agriculture tech, if laws wont protect those investments and wont provide any guarantees.

P.S I'm really sorry, as it's offtopic, but i think its really important to discuss it.

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

I don't think it is entirely off-topic as exports will mitigate the decreasing purchasing power and increase electronics sales.

I also have another idea. Can the government make trade deals with foreign manufacturers and suppliers for lower rates in exchange for exclusivity of imports? It will be close to Ogero but with electronics.

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

Well, didnt you noticed that everywhere in the world internet backbone cost $0.1/Mbit, while Ogero sell it $50-$55/Mbit? :)
I think its bad idea. And honestly i think its already done, major brands are imported by guys who have "wasta", this is why many branded things are batshit expensive.

Only good idea to import parts and assemble everything possible here. Lebanon market is very small, and "multinationals" wont invest in assembling, so local businesses have to do that. This will lower cost of many items and employ lot of people.
And, still Lebanon has most qualified people in arab market, as i know, so some complex stuff can be done here, if investment climate is good, but "most qualified" is not forever, UAE/KSA/others boosting their education system and new generation is much better, while Lebanon is stalling in this subject.

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

I meant like instead of people with wasta, the government can regulate imports and hence prices.

LifeEngineer

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

Sorry I won't read everything in this thread.
But back to the question in the title, does anyone have a positive answer?!

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

I meant like instead of people with wasta, the government can regulate imports and hence prices.

They will regulate with preference for "wasta" guys. It's not even lebanon, its just creating preconditions for corruption anywhere.
Regulations should be clear and minimal, Lebanon regulations are not proper even in food safety, because outdated.
And it should be only to provide quality standards and against cartels/monopoly.
Like there was example of guy with chinese mouses and etc. Seller should have meaningful way to provide warranty, e.g. keep some % of stock of replacements for last items sold until warranty ends, have ways to repair items (agreement with manufacturer or repair shops), keep statistics of returns and etc. As soon as this is enforced properly - those who manufacture locally will be leading, and importers of outdated unreliable crap that end up in garbage bin - will evaporate, as they can't be up to standards.

Last edited by nuclearcat (March 4 2020)

xazbrat

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

Sorry I won't read everything in this thread.
But back to the question in the title, does anyone have a positive answer?!

Try Carrefour or another similar big store---they have other things to sell beside computers so you should be able to use your card there.  Of course your selection may be crap, but it's a start.  As for trading in, it is next to impossible to get a decent deal, especially now.  I would suggest you sell your goods/parts first and then buy what you need somewhere else.  If you get lucky and get actually USD currency, you can use that to pay the difference.

Or you could try your luck with Aliexpress or another online reseller--maybe shopping.io?  Still be cheaper than buying here.

Ya like jazz

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

Buy a motile 14 laptop from walmart with onyourway, 600 usd shipped to your door, you can pay card including american express. Blown away considering the price.

gamingindex

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

Sorry I won't read everything in this thread.
But back to the question in the title, does anyone have a positive answer?!

Try Carrefour or another similar big store---they have other things to sell beside computers so you should be able to use your card there.  Of course your selection may be crap, but it's a start.  As for trading in, it is next to impossible to get a decent deal, especially now.  I would suggest you sell your goods/parts first and then buy what you need somewhere else.  If you get lucky and get actually USD currency, you can use that to pay the difference.

Or you could try your luck with Aliexpress or another online reseller--maybe shopping.io?  Still be cheaper than buying here.

shipping.io would be a good choice, I'm always ordering books from amazon through them with fair pricing and without being rippped off. Plus, they have a very fast shipping.

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

1500LL to USD it is not something somebody just decide and put.

For the record, the official rate is still just above 1500.

And yes, they can just decide and put. Is that not how centralized currency works?

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Is there any computer store in Lebanon accepting debit cards?

1500LL to USD it is not something somebody just decide and put.

For the record, the official rate is still just above 1500.

And yes, they can just decide and put. Is that not how centralized currency works?

You can make your own currency at home, let's name it Vincents, circulate it inside, give your kids and wife for good deeds,  smiles, and all relations in the house are about Vincents. You want wife to make salad or lunch, you pay Vincents, but she pay for veggies from her funds, just will charge you double... One problem, eventually some home members who go outside to "import" food(those veggies too), toys, etc and they will want some real cash, cause nobody want Vincents outside your home.
You can say you exchange 1500 Vincents to 1USD.
Its piece of cake if you are rich man with large farm behind. But, you own small but known and cozy coffee shop, which barely makes profit, more likely loosing.
So you dont earn much USD, but you generously give Vincents for your family members. Your wife smile all day, and she bought gucci, large petrol guzzling jeep, your kids have latest Apple gadgets with max subscriptions. So how did it happen?
Your uncles living abroad sending you money, and you told them your coffee shop is really kicking and you can give them nice % from investments.
In reality you just give USD of your uncles for your family. And giving uncles fake reports how their investments are doubling, tripling and so on...
Coffee business go really bad, hard times, and your family didnt bothered to invest in it a penny.
Uncles realized that his USD are not really invested, and coffee shop got really rusty crusty, and almost no people want to visit it. They stopped sending you USD and demand money they invested - back.
So, you are free to put 1500Vincents to USD. But you have little USD left, from barely kicking dying coffee shop, your wife and kids have lot of Vincents on hands and they want to pay for gadgets subscriptions, wife need to put fuel in her huge jeep...
And you know you can't afford that anymore.
Yes you have centralized currency and your Vincents. And no USD, all is left barely enough to feed your family.
But they got used for good life and think they deserve it, that each their smile and salad still worth lot of USD.
Unfortunately... reality is bad. Time to realize it.
And not only Vincent who did this scheme are one to blame(while mostly its his scam). Others has to be more realistic that smiles are good and worth a lot in family, but they are not convertible to USD. It's not even really work. And they had to open eyes and take care about family business, coffee shop, instead of buying jeeps and gadgets.
It's time to do real work, grow some veggies in backyard, sell them, and get used for a while for using cheap android and motorcycle. Your family is known to be talented, so for sure you will make something. But, if you, your family, uncles come to senses, which is not happening yet.
Sorry, for such comparisons, but this is what happened and happening, IMO.

Last edited by nuclearcat (March 6 2020)