LebGeeks

nosense

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

What about safety of keeping cash at home ? I see a lot of risks like fire and theft.

AVOlio

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

If they didn't tell you, my parents woke up one day when the dollar hit 3000 LBP. They had everything in LBP and lost most of their money. That was 3 decades ago. We've been there and no, we're not gonna go through the same again just because the BDL is in denial of the crisis.

In this case, the best solution is to convert the amount you have in LBP to USD right?
Withdrawing the money in LBP will not help i presume?

I remember when i was little my parents used to tell me that my grandparents lost a huge amount of money because they had stored their savings in LBP and did not convert it into USD.
6 year old me was like, how can this happen, banks are thieves...

But with the passing of years, i started getting what really happened.

I still think banks are thieves anyway and i do not trust banks or the banking system.
i prefer my money to be with me "under my mattress".

rolf

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

What about safety of keeping cash at home ? I see a lot of risks like fire and theft.

An ideal solution would be some sort of P2P banking.

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Appearances can be deceiving, the exchanges are taking a risk selling usd for 1600 and 1700 lbp, I wouldn't do it. 1700 lbp for usd seems cheap to me

Explain cheap. Do you want the rate to be above 1700 or back down to 1500?

Rate is unrealistically low. it should be around 2500 LBP. Look around you.... Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria... their currency couldn't hold against USD in the last 5 years.

This makes zero sense. Other countries messed up so let us jump on the wagon and mess up too?
I remember when the dollars was a few Liras and suddenly jumped to 3000+ and people lost their money's worth. Do you want that to happen again? Why not make the dollar is 20,000,000LL? I'll have just one dollar then.
I remember buying food with 20Liras.
Also in Egypt, the dollar fluctuates between 16 and 18 pounds, not 1500 and 1800. There is major difference. I have relatives living in Cairo near tahrir square and a few in Alexandria plus a few working in KSA. In Egypt, everything is in local currency even imported items with tailored prices.

rolf

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Anyway you raise an interesting point. You say you remember buying food for 20LL.

So during the devaluation, people such as AVOlio's grandparents lost much wealth.

At the level of the country, this is huge wealth lost.

Wealth does not just disappear like that.

So I am wondering. Where did it go?

I guess to find the answer we need to find the reason for the hyper devaluation from the 80ies.

One possible reason is that the central bank printed too much money.

if you really really do not trust thanks and want to be safe then you should keep gold instead or something else.

Last edited by rolf (November 7 2019)

Hybrid

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Many banks are giving only $500 per day, and most probably starting tomorrow, you can't withdraw in $$$ anymore.

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

So during the devaluation, people such as AVOlio's grandparents lost much wealth.

I can explain that. Let us say I have 1,500,000LL stored and it amounts to 1000USD (Ignore the inaccuracy).
If the dollar goes up to 3,000LL, I have only 500 USD and I lost money.

My mother lost a major portion of her money and my grandmother sold a house to accommodate for devaluation of the Lebanese pound up to 3000LL.

Wealth does not just disappear like that.

It didn't go anywhere. People simply had less purchasing power. Their money became useless. Inflation happened as more money needed to be printed to accommodate.

Last edited by VincentKeyboard (November 7 2019)

Guitaret

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Ok so apparently recharge cards will be priced in LBP from tommorow, one step in the right direction

The dealer just told my brother that even tough the ministry agreed on LBP, the resellers refused because their old stock are bought in USD money. I am honestly not sure if this is a joke or not.

sero

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Many banks are giving only $500 per day, and most probably starting tomorrow, you can't withdraw in $$$ anymore.
.

Source?
Do you mean withdraw from the counter or ATM?

I have several friends/relatives in the bank sector that ensured $$ will still be provided in ATMs like forever, but with a limitation on withdrawal (per day and per month)

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

The same thing happened with medication in 2018 when pharmacies had old stock after the MOPH set fixed lower prices on some meds.
How long do current stocks last in phone stores?

rolf

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

It didn't go anywhere.

Yes it did!
For example if Lebanon printed money to fund the budget deficit then this is where some of it would have went.

Last edited by rolf (November 7 2019)

user

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

What you do does not affect the big macro economics and what happens to the currency, it is much bigger than you. 20 million Lebanese abroad and millions of other foreigners (especially khalijis who have a lot of money and loved our interest rates) are the ones that influence our economy. The other major player is the government that wastes billions of dollars a year. You and the tiny part of your savings that you could manage to get out of the bank are not breaking the country. If you get all the lebanese people to put all their money back in the bank, the crisis will still happen, evidence of that is the banks started hunting for dollars a year ago and interest rates hit 14% in the bank long before people started trying to get money out. The scheme became unsustainable, due to much bigger players than the Lebanese people.

On wealth disappearing, let me tell you how wealth disappears.

suppose you have 1000$ that you put in the bank, now the bank has 1000$, and then a friend of yours, lets call him the lebanese government borrowed the 1000, paid someone to build him the house with the 1000 and that builder put it in the bank. Now I ask you how much money you have, and you say 1000$ pointing at your account. I ask the builder how much money he has, he has 1000$ as well in his bank account. But the bank only has one real 1000$ in cash. So who gets this 1000?

the answer is, the one who withdraws it first.

The problem with the lira is that it never had any value beyond Riyad Salemeh promising 1$ in exchange for 1500 liras. That is the only value it ever had. Lets compare that situation to the Canadian dollar for example, in Canada we have our own currency called the Canadian dollar, If you want to purchase anything in Canada, you have to use Canadian dollars, they will not take US dollar from you it is illegal. The Canadian dollar lost 30% of its value against the usd in 2016, but nobody cared at all. Because Canada grows its own food, its priced in Canadian dollars, that price did not change, houses are priced in Canadian dollars, that did not change. American cars and laptops got more expensive, but that is the extent of the pain people felt. People get paid 15 Canadian dollar per hour, that stayed the same.

One of our 2 major problems is that we do not have a real currency. Our economy uses the US dollar, a currency we do not have the right to print. The second major problem is that we import our food and our medicine. The word amen ghiza2i ring a bell? Situations like this is why all countries try to grow their own basic foods except for Lebanon.

What is happening in Lebanon could never naturally occur in any country that has its own currency. Because if people ran on the banks or foreigners withdrew their savings from Canada lets say, the central bank will just print that currency and give everyone everything they need. And it would not cause inflation because the government makes sure prices are stable, if inflation happens, they increase the interest rate, people put the money back in the banks.

infiniteloop

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

I have an incoming business trip to Budapest, I called BOB to ask them if I can use my debit card there, they said from the Lebanese side here are no problems besides the 700$ per day ATM and 1000$ in POS, but she said perhaps some places are starting to ban Lebanese cards, so now I don't know what's waiting for me there!
Anyone came back from Europe lately?
I am thinking to withdraw Euros then convert to $ there, even if it's only a few hundreds $  at least I am bringing back some $ cash to Lebanon

Last edited by infiniteloop (November 7 2019)

nas93

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Anyone recently exchanged $ to LBP at the sarraf? What are the rates?

Kareem

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Explain cheap. Do you want the rate to be above 1700 or back down to 1500?

Rate is unrealistically low. it should be around 2500 LBP. Look around you.... Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria... their currency couldn't hold against USD in the last 5 years.

This makes zero sense. Other countries messed up so let us jump on the wagon and mess up too?

Also in Egypt, the dollar fluctuates between 16 and 18 pounds, not 1500 and 1800. There is major difference. I have relatives living in Cairo near tahrir square and a few in Alexandria plus a few working in KSA. In Egypt, everything is in local currency even imported items with tailored prices.

No it's not that it's fluctuating... the currency lost more than half its value.

Anyway I'm not gonna go off topic but long story short, they messed up but we did even more. The situation is very similar IMO to Venezuela.

Banks are playing the game slowly. Everyday they come up with new rules and new restrictions. Why not open up and admit that they don't really have people's money ? I can assure you that BDL and the banks don't have most of our cash.

Last edited by Kareem (November 7 2019)

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

It didn't go anywhere.

Yes it did!
For example if Lebanon printed money to fund the budget deficit then this is where some of it would have went.

I see what you mean now.
Civilian-wise, people simply didn't have as much in terms of value when it went up to 3000 but were relieved financially a bit when it went down to 1500. And as you may know there was excessive illegal activity when it reached 3000. People started stealing and selling copper wires. I lived in Saifi area back then. Pretty much everyone had guns.

However, since the government had to print more money to cover the loss as a result of devaluation to 3000, they likely printed more than they needed and kept a lot.

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

No it's not that it's fluctuating... the currency lost more than half its value.

https://i.gyazo.com/5e97126a8cde96852bf … 3dfe19.png

Anyway I'm not gonna go off topic but long story short, they messed up but we did even more. The situation is very similar IMO to Venezuela.

Banks are playing the game slowly. Everyday they come up with new rules and new restrictions. Why not open up and admit that they don't really have people's money ? I can assure you that BDL and the banks don't have most of our cash.

Ok, that's bad what happened in September 2016 in your graph. But it is stable now though? And even if it weren't, I wish Lebanon would not follow the example of turmoil.

I'm not sure what to suggest about the banks but I agree with you there. They obviously don't have the cash.

Last edited by VincentKeyboard (November 7 2019)

sero

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Anyone recently exchanged $ to LBP at the sarraf? What are the rates?
.

Today, at 1770 (sold USD)

infiniteloop

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

So nobody knows if we can use debit cards (LL) in Europe now?

Kareem

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

So nobody knows if we can use debit cards (LL) in Europe now?

I have VISA Platinum credit and debit card from BoB... I called them today but they said nothing changed so far. It's still in USD.

Sorry but I can't tell you if it's going to work in Europe but if you happen to find out, let us know.

Hybrid

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Many banks are giving only $500 per day, and most probably starting tomorrow, you can't withdraw in $$$ anymore.
.

Source?
Do you mean withdraw from the counter or ATM?

I have several friends/relatives in the bank sector that ensured $$ will still be provided in ATMs like forever, but with a limitation on withdrawal (per day and per month)

You're talking about last week,this week it went downhill pretty fast.

Source: personal experience

Sgbl removed the USD completely from their ATMs starting last Saturday, and no it's not because the ATM doesn't have USD like some would say. It used to run out of USD before but the button was there. At the counter, $500 was the max number today and the teller said no more dollars for people starting tomorrow, and they did confess that they aren't putting any $$$ in ATMs anymore.

Audi gave my friend only $500 today and said that's the limit, and their ATMs dont have any $$$ since Tuesday even though they keep saying they are filling them.

BoB are probably the worst, I can't even withdraw LBP from most of the ATMs, i have a card with 200,000 lbp and I tried 4 different ATMs yesterday and today and all were empty, I didn't try to go inside though.

A video went viral about byblos bank today, not sure of its authenticity but most probably it's real.

Try getting inside a bank, people are madddd, and the queue is so long.

Last edited by Hybrid (November 7 2019)

Kareem

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

I think this sums it up :

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic … e=url_link

rolf

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

However, since the government had to print more money to cover the loss as a result of devaluation to 3000, they likely printed more than they needed and kept a lot.

At a basic level, printing money and putting it in circulation causes devaluation, because of the law of offer and demand.

So it they were doing that as a result of devaluation then it is a self-reinforcing cycle.

The devaluation happens after the newly printed money is used.

However after while people realize that their currency is devaluating and they stop using it, reducing demand and causing further devaluation.

Last edited by rolf (November 8 2019)

xerxes

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

I think this sums it up :

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic … e=url_link

Great Article

xerxes

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

lets try to keep track of the fluctuation in exchange rate on a daily basis in this thread.

I think it is around 1,800=1$ today