LebGeeks

rolf

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

And you can't just take money of rich and divide between poor, it is socialism and it always fails.
Remember what happened when France tried to do so:

France already takes 45% income tax from the richest which is over twice what they pay in Lebanon.

Last edited by rolf (November 29 2019)

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

And you can't just take money of rich and divide between poor, it is socialism and it always fails.
Remember what happened when France tried to do so:

France already takes 45% income tax from the richest which is over twice what they pay in Lebanon.

When richest pay this % - especially those with money look what they get in return. If you ask them 45% here, they will ask where is equal services france provide - reliable legal system, infrastructure, ecology and etc.
If you put anything comparable, they will leave Lebanon next day and will take all their investments. Thats not those who are sitting on pile of money (actually this ones not getting any profit, so they wont pay this tax), this is mostly owners of businesses who still make some stuff and they are profitable.

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

P.S. I am foreigner worker as well, but i doubt someone can outperform me in my field in Lebanon and in some areas of expertise i'm alone totally, and i keep all earned money here, in Lebanon. So i am not a bee protesting against the honey :)

That's good for you. I am glad. The country indeed needs talented people like yourself. But the issue is elsewhere. Regarding wages, they were higher and dipped very low because of the competition. If we raise wages back to what they were in 2016, half the problem is solved.
Please try to see the point here. I'm not suggesting we raise wages beyond what they were. But at this rate, people are going to starve unless the government steps in and helps create jobs.
I'm sitting here in front of a Linux desktop and a Windows 10 pro laptop and I feel lucky. Many aren't. Today on the street, someone was walking around with a paper in his hands. The paper had a phone number of a workshop that makes handbags. He was literally begging people to call the phone number on his behalf to ask for the exact address. He walked from zouk mkayel to bourj hammood with nothing but this paper in his hand because of a job prospect.
I saw a lady a week ago near mar mkhayel nahr next to Simon Electric. She basically asks if people need someone to clean their houses or stores and she sleeps at night in a church courtyard so I directed her to a restaurant in case they need someone to mop the floor.

Last edited by VincentKeyboard (November 29 2019)

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

That's good for you. I am glad. The country indeed needs talented people like yourself. But the issue is elsewhere. Regarding wages, they were higher and dipped very low because of the competition. If we raise wages back to what they were in 2016, half the problem is solved.
Please try to see the point here. I'm not suggesting we raise wages beyond what they were. But at this rate, people are going to starve unless the government steps in and helps create jobs.

In understand you perfectly, this is why i say foreign workers that replace lebanese should go away unconditionally.
And one thing if some business have unreasonably highly paid workers, and some poor people salaries are reduced, thats unfair and should be fixed.
But IMO very few exploit situation, many businesses are lowering salaries because they have no money. They have very little customers, or they are not enough efficient and it is too late to fix that, they are unable to pay rents, their bills and don't expect them to pay full salaries.
You can't force them to pay more. Money wont appear miraculously from nowhere.
What i see realistic, that if we group all together, as i see here many bright minds and we find ideas how to make economy a little bit better, and it will make more jobs. Best - to make something export, so it brings money to country, good - to make more "made in Lebanon" with significant locally added value, even for local consumption.
Let's say i can design and make some electronic devices(local assembly can be here, but this is long term projects), or we assist people to make manufacturing or make it more efficient, or we promote somehow lebanese products in retail...
Maybe we make some telegram channel and discuss?

Last edited by nuclearcat (November 30 2019)

Johnaudi

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

If someone sends you money via Western Union/Moneygram as USD from the outside, are you able to retrieve them as USD here in Lebanon? Or will they give you their equivalent at 1515?

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

@Nuclearcat, I don't think "all" foreign workers should unconditionally leave for various reasons including intermarriages. I know a Syrian programmer with a @ibm.com email married to a Lebanese lady and has children born in Lebanon. Those made a home here and no one can strip them of that. One can be Lebanese by heart after spending enough time here. There are Egyptians born in Lebanon during the 80s wars and don't even know how speak anything but Lebanese but are still technically foreigners. By now, this is obviously your home too.
But the government should be competent enough to be able to continuously implement adjustments that protect everyone's well-being. This government lacks efficiency. Notice how you suggested an industrial project that can generate job opportunities and the government officials did not.
Long term industrial projects are actually good and they are likely to create jobs as well since labor don't necessarily need to understand the engineering behind a component to assemble it correctly through following instructions. Take Foxconn for example. Plus people of all ages, 20 to 60 and of all genders can be factory workers.
Realistically though, Is this a geekish dream or can it actually be funded and operated? Ideas don't bring food to the table unless they are implemented.

Last edited by VincentKeyboard (November 30 2019)

potato

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Guys do you recommend to convert money from USD to LBP today or wait till next week ? Ive heard it will hit hit to 3000 and i'm not confident enough about this info.

xerxes

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

I need some USD if anyone is exchanging

nefe_lpmk

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

On another note, how healthy for the people that get paid in USD to exchange to LBP at 2300-3000? Is it benefiting the market and the situation or creating more issues?
I know it is benefiting the seller a 30-40%, but for morality of it and the good of our country, should we do it or not?

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

@Nuclearcat, I don't think "all" foreign workers should unconditionally leave for various reasons including intermarriages. I know a Syrian programmer with a @ibm.com email married to a Lebanese lady and has children born in Lebanon. Those made a home here and no one can strip them of that. One can be Lebanese by heart after spending enough time here. There are Egyptians born in Lebanon during the 80s wars and don't even know how speak anything but Lebanese but are still technically foreigners. By now, this is obviously your home too.
But the government should be competent enough to be able to continuously implement adjustments that protect everyone's well-being. This government lacks efficiency. Notice how you suggested an industrial project that can generate job opportunities and the government officials did not.
Long term industrial projects are actually good and they are likely to create jobs as well since labor don't necessarily need to understand the engineering behind a component to assemble it correctly through following instructions. Take Foxconn for example. Plus people of all ages, 20 to 60 and of all genders can be factory workers.
Realistically though, Is this a geekish dream or can it actually be funded and operated? Ideas don't bring food to the table unless they are implemented.

Not leave country, but leave job positions where Lebanese can work. If there is Lebanese who have equal or better knowledge as i have and he is jobless, that means i am stealing his job and i should leave.
Especially if we are talking about jobs that doesn't require some know-how, that are major part of unemployment/low salaries issue.
Do you think it is reasonable to bring workers for such jobs in supermarket from Asia, while Lebanon have so many unemployed? Especially after i seen this messages in this thread, how people are suffering without job.
I know this very well, cause i started to work at quite young age (finished repair training and was fixing TVs from approx 13-14yo), and at some moment, at adult age, i had to go 3 jobs to earn enough for living.

NuclearVision

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

News sites: Today's rate is 1800-2000.

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Not leave country, but leave job positions where Lebanese can work. If there is Lebanese who have equal or better knowledge as i have and he is jobless, that means i am stealing his job and i should leave.
Especially if we are talking about jobs that doesn't require some know-how, that are major part of unemployment/low salaries issue.
Do you think it is reasonable to bring workers for such jobs in supermarket from Asia, while Lebanon have so many unemployed? Especially after i seen this messages in this thread, how people are suffering without job.
I know this very well, cause i started to work at quite young age (finished repair training and was fixing TVs from approx 13-14yo), and at some moment, at adult age, i had to go 3 jobs to earn enough for living.

That's absolutely true. It is not reasonable to import workers from Asia for remedial jobs that anyone can do. At the very least, this will help two categories:
1) Elderly who want a job that does not require too much physical effort so they can cater for themselves.
2) People who desperately need a job and are willing to do something outside their skillsets.

xazbrat

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

If someone sends you money via Western Union/Moneygram as USD from the outside, are you able to retrieve them as USD here in Lebanon? Or will they give you their equivalent at 1515?

No USD this way---only LL sorry :(

VincentKeyboard

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

On another note, how healthy for the people that get paid in USD to exchange to LBP at 2300-3000? Is it benefiting the market and the situation or creating more issues?
I know it is benefiting the seller a 30-40%, but for morality of it and the good of our country, should we do it or not?

This is an unpopular opinion but I think it is bad. Prices are creeping up. Some went up from 2000 to 4500LL depending on the location. Not everyone gets paid in USD. The ones who get paid in LL are going to suffer. A shop next to me just closed because his rent was 600 dollars at 900,000LL and now his landlord wants 1,350,000 which he isn't willing to pay. That's a 450,000LL increase in monthly rent.

NuclearVision

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

On another note, how healthy for the people that get paid in USD to exchange to LBP at 2300-3000? Is it benefiting the market and the situation or creating more issues?
I know it is benefiting the seller a 30-40%, but for morality of it and the good of our country, should we do it or not?

This is an unpopular opinion but I think it is bad. Prices are creeping up. Some went up from 2000 to 4500LL depending on the location. Not everyone gets paid in USD. The ones who get paid in LL are going to suffer. A shop next to me just closed because his rent was 600 dollars at 900,000LL and now his landlord wants 1,350,000 which he isn't willing to pay. That's a 450,000LL increase in monthly rent.

why do people think it's reasonable to get paid in usd for services they don't import.

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

On another note, how healthy for the people that get paid in USD to exchange to LBP at 2300-3000? Is it benefiting the market and the situation or creating more issues?
I know it is benefiting the seller a 30-40%, but for morality of it and the good of our country, should we do it or not?

This is an unpopular opinion but I think it is bad. Prices are creeping up. Some went up from 2000 to 4500LL depending on the location. Not everyone gets paid in USD. The ones who get paid in LL are going to suffer. A shop next to me just closed because his rent was 600 dollars at 900,000LL and now his landlord wants 1,350,000 which he isn't willing to pay. That's a 450,000LL increase in monthly rent.

Any contract or loan in USD going to hit hard, it is better to find way to sign them in LL or cancel and relocate. I am sure there is many who will accept him in LL and even for less money.
IMO only who can earn in USD is those who bring them from outside (programmers working for outside clients, exporters, tourist industry that get paid only from outside).
Current devaluation is semi-natural process adjusting overinflated purchasing power, if everybody country just try to jack up salaries to match with devaluation, but country trade balance is still -$9billion, you will reach zimbabwian dollar devaluation state.
The only who should be taken care about, those who have with devaluation salary below survival amount, their salary amount should be adjusted.

karimo

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

On another note, how healthy for the people that get paid in USD to exchange to LBP at 2300-3000? Is it benefiting the market and the situation or creating more issues?
I know it is benefiting the seller a 30-40%, but for morality of it and the good of our country, should we do it or not?

thats a misconception.  you dont profit when you sell at higher rate since all prices also increased same %

if an item used to cost  1$ = 1500 now it costs 1$ = 2100 (since most items are imported/ are priced in usd or equivalent)
if you converted 1500 back then at official rate you would get 1$, then convert that 1$ to 2100 today and be able to buy just that 1 item that costs 1$

you simply preserve purchasing power of your money

tl;dr you get X% more LBP but also prices increased by X% so you gain nothing. you lose some % if you converted usd to lbp if usd gets more expensive which seems whats happening atm

Draguen

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

On another note, how healthy for the people that get paid in USD to exchange to LBP at 2300-3000? Is it benefiting the market and the situation or creating more issues?
I know it is benefiting the seller a 30-40%, but for morality of it and the good of our country, should we do it or not?

thats a misconception.  you dont profit when you sell at higher rate since all prices also increased same %

if an item used to cost  1$ = 1500 now it costs 1$ = 2100 (since most items are imported/ are priced in usd or equivalent)
if you converted 1500 back then at official rate you would get 1$, then convert that 1$ to 2100 today and be able to buy just that 1 item that costs 1$

you simply preserve purchasing power of your money

tl;dr you get X% more LBP but also prices increased by X% so you gain nothing. you lose some % if you converted usd to lbp if usd gets more expensive which seems whats happening atm

This is true for most items, however all governmental fees (baladiye / car registration etc.) are paid in Lebanese Pound. So everything related to government got cheaper.

Kareem

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

On another note, how healthy for the people that get paid in USD to exchange to LBP at 2300-3000? Is it benefiting the market and the situation or creating more issues?
I know it is benefiting the seller a 30-40%, but for morality of it and the good of our country, should we do it or not?

thats a misconception.  you dont profit when you sell at higher rate since all prices also increased same %

if an item used to cost  1$ = 1500 now it costs 1$ = 2100 (since most items are imported/ are priced in usd or equivalent)
if you converted 1500 back then at official rate you would get 1$, then convert that 1$ to 2100 today and be able to buy just that 1 item that costs 1$

you simply preserve purchasing power of your money

tl;dr you get X% more LBP but also prices increased by X% so you gain nothing. you lose some % if you converted usd to lbp if usd gets more expensive which seems whats happening atm

This is true for most items, however all governmental fees (baladiye / car registration etc.) are paid in Lebanese Pound. So everything related to government got cheaper.

Housing loans in LBP mostly. If I used to pay 3 millions a month ( $2000 ) I'm now paying almost $1300.

So yeah if my salary is in USD my monthly payment now constitutes 20% of my salary vs 30%  ( made up those numbers for the sake of argument)

Last edited by Kareem (November 30 2019)

user

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

@kareem, why do i keep hearing that there's no usd flow from abroad? why not? I mean what changed in one month? People abroad decided to stop supporting their families?

IMO, it's a game so that people panic and buy Usd with high prices, the same is(was) being done with fuel.
Who's making profits? You guessed it, the banks! Why? because they're supplying minutes amount of usd, and large amount when needed to feed their game.
This is just my theory, i could be wrong, but again, things such as this can't happen between day and night, like it has happened.

I have a coworker in Canada, he wants to send money to his family but he is worried that if he transfers usd from here they will collect it in LBP 3al se3er el rasmeh, and he does not want that, so he is hanging on to his money. Other people used to transfer money to their private accounts in Lebanon to collect interest, they won't do that anymore. Some non residents have millions in Lebanon and they used to transfer large sums to get interest...

Our taxes are broken, we don't have a proper tax for investment returns, el tax el tasa3odiyyeh in Lebanon only counts if you are an employee, bas if you are rich and receiving interest on your money in the bank, or you are a shareholder of a bank for example collecting dividends, you pay no income tax at all. In all the countries of the world interest and outside income count towards tax, and in most countries if you are a foreigner earning income from a local source, they tax you a withholding tax, if you buy a US government bond, the US government taxes you 25% before giving you the interest money for example. It is too late now but this is one of the major things that needed to exist in Lebanon, especially after the flood of money that came to us in 2009... And it was a tax that is super easy to collect, since banks keep accurate records and would be in charge of paying it...

More pain is coming.

I am coming to Lebanon in December 13, I am taking the opportunity to visit some sites and industries, I am interested in greenhouses and hydroponics in Lebanon, lots of realstate is idle, lots of demand for agriculture will come soon(if not already) Syria and Egypt will no longer flood our market with agricultural goods if there is no more USD to be extracted(heh, they don't want our lira, who can blame them?) There is a real risk of a food crisis to follow... But negativity aside, maybe since we are Lebgeeks someone can help me out with some math regarding having a tech oriented greenhouses with solar power and water that runs on timers...

Last edited by user (December 1 2019)

Toufic

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

@kareem, why do i keep hearing that there's no usd flow from abroad? why not? I mean what changed in one month? People abroad decided to stop supporting their families?

IMO, it's a game so that people panic and buy Usd with high prices, the same is(was) being done with fuel.
Who's making profits? You guessed it, the banks! Why? because they're supplying minutes amount of usd, and large amount when needed to feed their game.
This is just my theory, i could be wrong, but again, things such as this can't happen between day and night, like it has happened.

I have a coworker in Canada, he wants to send money to his family but he is worried that if he transfers usd from here they will collect it in LBP 3al se3er el rasmeh, and he does not want that, so he is hanging on to his money. Other people used to transfer money to their private accounts in Lebanon to collect interest, they won't do that anymore. Some non residents have millions in Lebanon and they used to transfer large sums to get interest...

Our taxes are broken, we don't have a proper tax for investment returns, el tax el tasa3odiyyeh in Lebanon only counts if you are an employee, bas if you are rich and receiving interest on your money in the bank, or you are a shareholder of a bank for example collecting dividends, you pay no income tax at all. In all the countries of the world interest and outside income count towards tax, and in most countries if you are a foreigner earning income from a local source, they tax you a withholding tax, if you buy a US government bond, the US government taxes you 25% before giving you the interest money for example. It is too late now but this is one of the major things that needed to exist in Lebanon, especially after the flood of money that came to us in 2009... And it was a tax that is super easy to collect, since banks keep accurate records and would be in charge of paying it...

More pain is coming.

I am coming to Lebanon in December 13, I am taking the opportunity to visit some sites and industries, I am interested in greenhouses and hydroponics in Lebanon, lots of realstate is idle, lots of demand for agriculture will come soon(if not already) Syria and Egypt will no longer flood our market with agricultural goods if there is no more USD to be extracted(heh, they don't want our lira, who can blame them?) There is a real risk of a food crisis to follow... But negativity aside, maybe since we are Lebgeeks someone can help me out with some math regarding having a tech oriented greenhouses with solar power and water that runs on timers...

This is spot on !!

As geeks, i was waiting for someone to suggest such a thing.

The next big thing is to produce local !!!
90% of consumables in lebanon are imported and it has a huge role in worsening the crisis

Even in Syria with the crisis there, or turkey with the devaluation of it's currency by the US years ago, Greece with it's financial crisis years ago etc. all those situation won't be as bad as it'll be in Lebanon in the upcoming year because they produce a lot of local goods (and it's way we're closer to Venezuela in term of possible outcome on the everyday social/economic level mainly)

Hydroponics and green energy (among other technologies) is the future but regulations / corruption might block this due to how much they gain (prime example is generators / electricity gains) unless the politicians/regulators realize it's the only way to salvage the country

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

I am coming to Lebanon in December 13, I am taking the opportunity to visit some sites and industries, I am interested in greenhouses and hydroponics in Lebanon, lots of realstate is idle, lots of demand for agriculture will come soon(if not already) Syria and Egypt will no longer flood our market with agricultural goods if there is no more USD to be extracted(heh, they don't want our lira, who can blame them?) There is a real risk of a food crisis to follow... But negativity aside, maybe since we are Lebgeeks someone can help me out with some math regarding having a tech oriented greenhouses with solar power and water that runs on timers...

Check Lifelab
Dr Hassan Nasser in telegram channel https://t.me/corruptionrevolutioneconomy have contacts with them.
I am interested also, and if you need any help with electronics & embedded programming (for good cause - free of charge), let me know.

user

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

I am visiting one of the greenhouses they have setup in fact(healthy basket is setup by them if I am not mistaken). I do not yet have anything specific in mind, I am visiting greenhouses. I am also thinking of what does it take for us to package fruits and sell them in cans (I buy canned peaches and pear in Canada for 3$ a can, meanwhile in Lebanon the 1 KG is sold for 500 liras, if all it takes is putting it in a can for it to quadruple in value, what is stopping us?) I mostly want information, what do we have and what are we missing, and what challenges the current industries we have face...

Last edited by user (December 1 2019)

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

I am visiting one of the greenhouses they have setup in fact(healthy basket is setup by them if I am not mistaken). I do not yet have anything specific in mind, I am visiting greenhouses. I am also thinking of what does it take for us to package fruits and sell them in cans (I buy canned peaches and pear in Canada for 3$ a can, meanwhile in Lebanon the 1 KG is sold for 500 liras, if all it takes is putting it in a can for it to quadruple in value, what is stopping us?) I mostly want information, what do we have and what are we missing, and what challenges the current industries we have face...

Any significant production that match quality standards for export need industrial equipment. IMO it is pricey, and we(Lebanon, geeks, whatever) need to make some knowhow unique to Lebanon as well to compete.
Check for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNgbMe-MsqA
https://youtu.be/KByx0G-wH-U

If you do it just "handmade", you get tons of issues like cheeseballs that are made such way in Lebanon. Each time i try to buy them - they are in oil due to a loose cap, exploding cans, suspicious quality, unreadable text on labels or missing information and etc. You can't export that.

About fundamental research it is something like: https://www.longdom.org/open-access/eff … 000244.pdf
I can't find fast, but there is researches from one of neighbouring countries (maybe Tunisia) competing on same market, they have universities working for benefit of their agricultural sector.

user

Member

Re: Lebanese lira to USD exchange

Baby steps, local markets first. Start small. A lot of the process of packing fruits is human monitored, machines cannot tell the difference between a rotten fruit or a good one yet. The factories you showed are on the really high end, servicing millions of clients in the US. My ideas are more towards the local market, make it cheap enough and it will sell. If we locally package and we sell for 2000 liras a can. I am sure many people will buy for their children in winter... It should also be easy to market to restaurants. You can get quality from human processes, you put a team of quality control, you take it slow at first, it can work.

Funding in this dumb country is of course an issue, and I think they made it difficult on purpose so we can't compete with the already wealthy. In any other normal country you can get subsidized loans for 2% interest or create a company and make a public offering with laws that protect the rights of everyone...

Last edited by user (December 2 2019)