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#151 November 26 2020

RandomMemory
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Beta0 wrote:

It would be great if stores jack it up, at least there is warranty, and then they can lower them as the supply increases, scalpers will lose a lot when they have to lower them, which eliminates them in the first place. Though I believe warranties are a joke in Lebanon aren't they?

Not if you buy from proper retailers, I've RMAd graphics cards before and got brand new replacements

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#152 November 26 2020

Tech Guru
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

RandomMemory wrote:
Beta0 wrote:

It would be great if stores jack it up, at least there is warranty, and then they can lower them as the supply increases, scalpers will lose a lot when they have to lower them, which eliminates them in the first place. Though I believe warranties are a joke in Lebanon aren't they?

Not if you buy from proper retailers, I've RMAd graphics cards before and got brand new replacements


Fattal , Sony official distributor in Lebanon ,  warranty is great. Plus , I got a TCL P8S 65"  4K HDR TV from Tahan  that got stroke by a sky  lightning which disabled all HDMI ports circuit. A TCL team came and changed it without charging any penny.

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#153 November 26 2020

Tech Guru
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Kareem wrote:

Hi Guys, I got my hands on two PS5 that will be delivered to me around mid december. Anyone interested? Got the from USA for 500 + state tax ~ 550 USD.

Not sure if 725 USD is a reasonable price...


Next wave mate will be 695 USD , official fattal, and it will reach here on the 15th of December. I already paid to reserve.

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#154 November 26 2020

nosense
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Tech Guru wrote:
Kareem wrote:

Hi Guys, I got my hands on two PS5 that will be delivered to me around mid december. Anyone interested? Got the from USA for 500 + state tax ~ 550 USD.

Not sure if 725 USD is a reasonable price...


Next wave mate will be 695 USD , official fattal, and it will reach here on the 15th of December. I already paid to reserve.

where did you pay ?

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#155 November 27 2020

Tech Guru
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

nosense wrote:
Tech Guru wrote:
Kareem wrote:

Hi Guys, I got my hands on two PS5 that will be delivered to me around mid december. Anyone interested? Got the from USA for 500 + state tax ~ 550 USD.

Not sure if 725 USD is a reasonable price...


Next wave mate will be 695 USD , official fattal, and it will reach here on the 15th of December. I already paid to reserve.

where did you pay ?


Mojitech mate.

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#156 November 28 2020

Tech Guru
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

My sources mentioned to me that the second wave will have an ETA at 15th of December. There will be a marginal drop in price at 695 USD , but most certainly it will he sold like the 1st wave at 712 USD. Black market will regain its momentum , since Sony will export to Lebanon not enough units to meet the PS5 high demand. Best way is to distribute your name at many Fattal resellers to increase your chances tp grab one at 712 USD with official 15 months fattal warranty. A similar scenario happened in the 1st batch.

The root cause is that PS5 success exceeded Sony expectation to manufacture units to meet the market high demand.

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#157 November 28 2020

anayman_k7
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Tech Guru wrote:

grab one.

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#158 December 3 2020

Beta0
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

I would stress that a decent UPS is needed, I've heard news of SSD data corruption from game crashes or power blackouts bricking it.

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#159 December 3 2020

nosense
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Beta0 wrote:

I would stress that a decent UPS is needed, I've heard news of SSD data corruption from game crashes or power blackouts bricking it.

yes I also read that this is common, although it is a soft brick and  it is fixed by resetting the console, a UPS is a must.

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#160 December 3 2020

Salloum
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Beta0 wrote:

I would stress that a decent UPS is needed, I've heard news of SSD data corruption from game crashes or power blackouts bricking it.

Offtopic, but a UPS is needed for everything electronic ranging from your fridge to television. Basically anything with a PSU.

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#161 December 3 2020

Beta0
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Salloum wrote:
Beta0 wrote:

I would stress that a decent UPS is needed, I've heard news of SSD data corruption from game crashes or power blackouts bricking it.

Offtopic, but a UPS is needed for everything electronic ranging from your fridge to television. Basically anything with a PSU.

Defiantly but this one needs longer than average offline time depending on where you live. Ranges from 20 seconds to rarely as once a month for up to 30 minutes in my area. It's pretty common in this country to have this cycle: Dawle -1min-> Ishtirak -2 mins-> blackout -5 mins-> Ishtirak. A 10 minute UPS will shutdown on the second blackout, their charging is incredibly slow as well, that's why I said decent. Not a problem for TVs or PC with autoshutdown trigger
Most fridges if not all use capacitive power supply, in order to handle surges and very wide range voltage including brownouts and for cost effective reasons, not to mention it's easier to have monitoring circuit that way, inverter models are isolated, VFD-like. The only thing that makes sense using UPS is maintaining defrost cycle counter. That includes most medium power equipment and ACs. SMPS PSUs like TVs and desktop are very intolerant to under frequency on the AC side, worse with power factor correction many old private subscription providers do not monitor that, a dirty injector pump is all it takes to provide houses 45 hz or so until someone notifies them, not all providers are the same.

Last edited by Beta0 (December 3 2020)

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#162 December 3 2020

RandomMemory
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Beta0 wrote:

I would stress that a decent UPS is needed, I've heard news of SSD data corruption from game crashes or power blackouts bricking it.

Had to get a UPS as well 1500VA because the console kept turning off mid gameplay when a power outage happens. a 700VA UPS wasn't enough

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#163 December 4 2020

RandomMemory
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

phonefinity just stocked 3 PS5s for 1200$ each

Last edited by RandomMemory (December 4 2020)

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#164 December 4 2020

Tech Guru
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Beta0 wrote:
Salloum wrote:
Beta0 wrote:

I would stress that a decent UPS is needed, I've heard news of SSD data corruption from game crashes or power blackouts bricking it.

Offtopic, but a UPS is needed for everything electronic ranging from your fridge to television. Basically anything with a PSU.

Defiantly but this one needs longer than average offline time depending on where you live. Ranges from 20 seconds to rarely as once a month for up to 30 minutes in my area. It's pretty common in this country to have this cycle: Dawle -1min-> Ishtirak -2 mins-> blackout -5 mins-> Ishtirak. A 10 minute UPS will shutdown on the second blackout, their charging is incredibly slow as well, that's why I said decent. Not a problem for TVs or PC with autoshutdown trigger
Most fridges if not all use capacitive power supply, in order to handle surges and very wide range voltage including brownouts and for cost effective reasons, not to mention it's easier to have monitoring circuit that way, inverter models are isolated, VFD-like. The only thing that makes sense using UPS is maintaining defrost cycle counter. That includes most medium power equipment and ACs. SMPS PSUs like TVs and desktop are very intolerant to under frequency on the AC side, worse with power factor correction many old private subscription providers do not monitor that, a dirty injector pump is all it takes to provide houses 45 hz or so until someone notifies them, not all providers are the same.


What a decent UPS you recommend for the PS5 taking into consideratiin the electricity problems here? I am thinking of getting an on-line pure sine wave output PSU.

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#165 December 4 2020

Tech Guru
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

RandomMemory wrote:
Beta0 wrote:

I would stress that a decent UPS is needed, I've heard news of SSD data corruption from game crashes or power blackouts bricking it.

Had to get a UPS as well 1500VA because the console kept turning off mid gameplay when a power outage happens. a 700VA UPS wasn't enough


Most probably you are getting an in-line interactive UPS with a simulated  pulse-width modulated ( PWM) sine wave output.  They have a max efficiency or power factor of 60%. Therefore, a 700VA UPS will give you a 700 (0.6) = 420 W

Last edited by Tech Guru (December 4 2020)

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#166 December 4 2020

Tech Guru
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

The  PS5 and Xbox Series X can output a 4k 120hz Signal and you need a Compatible HDMI 2.1 4K 120Hz TV 2020 Set like the Sony X900h or LG Oled CX , but here is the catch for the them to do 120fps you are playing on the lowest image quality resolution being upscaled to 2160p "4k".

Borderlands 3: 120hz 1080p Internal  Rendering Upscaled to 2160p

Call of Duty Cold War: 120hz at upper bound of 1200p and lower bound of 1080p Intenal rendering upscaled to 2160p

Dirt 5:  120hz at upper bound of 1440p and lower bound of 1080p Internal rendering upsacled to 2160p

Rainbow Six Siege:  120hz at 1080p Internal rendering upsacled to 2160p

Devil May Cry 5:  120hz at 1080p Internal rendering upsacaled to 2160p

Last edited by Tech Guru (December 5 2020)

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#167 December 4 2020

Beta0
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

From my repairs, if budget allows, I would go with an online low frequency pure sine online UPS.

Generally, cheap and Chinese branded PS online inverter/UPS are high frequency (multi stage SMPS style), they have exponentially poor <0.9 PF capacity, rely on MOSFET tech due to the high frequency, they cannot handle load surge well such as plugging in a 800W+ PSU that's been sitting for hours off due to the internal post rectifier capacitor, shortening it's service life, but that usually does not happen in UPS scenario as it's already on, they're specifically designed for electronics. Low frequency rely on a (single stage) transformer, they're generally bigger and heavier due to the larger transformer (lower the frequency in TFs, the larger). They're more suitable for home circuit installations, inductive loads such as a garage door motor, and no noise for sensitive audio equipment. They last much longer, and due to low switching speeds on the primary, they use pricey IGBT modules that may last a lifetime, they can handle shorts, even huge back-EMF from near welding tools. However they do suffer from high idle consumption, worse than offline as it's on all the time. Expect around 40-70 watt idle no load for a 3000VA unit on the input, same when using the batteries.

Protection wise, a good UPS is a power conditioner, it does not protect your devices from current surge or voltage (from lightning). The MOVs on them can be considered a type 3 (last stage) surge arrestor.

High frequency UPS/inverter are incredibly useful for dynamic loads, such as having TV and a router during blackout as load or both off. While the TV is off and the router is on, the UPS/inverter will consume the same amount of power needed from the batts to load in this
rough example: Load = 15 watt, High freq battery side = 16 watt. Low freq pure sine battery = ~30 watt. Low freq square wave battery = ~70 watt.
While a 100 watt TV is on: ~120, ~125, ~140 respectively. With <0.85 PF, the low freq pure sine wins them all but not by a huge margin.
Due to lower idle, fan will rarely run.

Battery date is sometimes more important than quality or condition. A recent used battery with 100 cycles less than 6 months manufacturing date may perform better than a new 1 year old battery. Cheap small batteries have no catalyst for hydrogen/oxygen, unlike cars (non calcium) VRLA.

For a "sane" or limited budget, cheap high frequency PS online UPS and high quality square/MSW offline/line-interactive w/AVR UPS are the way to go, the latter lasting much longer and is able to handle overload/short but nosier due to relays, both offer the same protection. Cheap square wave offline should be avoided, especially the ones with AVR.

Generally the high end specifies VA at 0.85 PF, while the low end specs at 1 PF. E.g if both are 100VA, the latter maxes out at 100W with a heating element (resistive = PF 1), while the former leaves 25W. Bear in mind that their 0.85 spec also follows the efficiency curve that is usually specified, going lower not only reduces the total reactive power, load from battery/mains will exponentially increase below that point. Low spec UPS do not mention that and their PF mentioning is only for liability purposes with unknown performance or max load under PF 1.
Square wave low freq inverters handle bit less capacity at poor PF compared to pure sine, but a bit better than high freq PS.

Almost all SMPS and general electronics have a PF of >0.85, including dirt cheap constant voltage LED drivers. (commonly used in retrofitting halogen fixtures)
Efficiency is generally the same with low frequency square/MSW wave inverters from high-end to dirt cheap, they're mostly efficient at a certain power gap, higher end having a wide gap such as 40% to 80% of total load due to having an MCU (decreases RMS frequency in MSW mode on certain load, cheap UPS don't even have a MCU or MSW mode, they use a pulse generator circuit/IC). This gap eliminates core loss load, you should never under/oversize a square/MSW UPS. E.g 20% or 40% load will have the same backup time, the latter only producing less heat from the UPS.


Most of these cheap offline interactive UPS out there offers fake capacities and miss the following:
-No frequency clock skewing, this is used to synchronize to the line peak timing after the line is back. Not having this is basically the same as flipping the switch on then off quickly at around 80-200ms, I've heard that TV backlight drivers getting hit by this as some TVs have a dedicated limited PS for backlight for increased efficiency. (A++). Some cheap non-MCU UPS wait for the right moment to sync, they may stay in backup/inverter mode with a flaky generator (e.g swaying 50 to 50.5 hertz every second)
-No modified sine wave, this is useful for active PFC PSUs over certain voltage, usually around 210v for 230v base spec. High end UPS usually switch to 190v using the internal AVR before switching back to square wave at ~50% battery due to batt voltage drop, square wave is actually very efficient for SMPS psu compared to MSW.
-High "battery/backup-mode no load" power consumption due to imperfect core ratio in the transformer, this shortens the "efficiency gap".
-Mismatched weekly manufacturing date of the FETs, causing untimed back EMF and poor cold starts due to manufacturing tolerances, Eaton and APC are known to install weekly equals. Very important for handling overloads and main line load surges.
-Hysteresis only AVR switching and inverter mode, no dormancy (2 factor hysteresis). Expect tons of relay clicking when the "Ishtirak" voltage sways all the time at around 10V +/-/
-Linear low ceiling voltage trickle charging, not being able to charge  >80%, single stage and very slow, unlike cheap online PS, they already offer a decent way to charge batteries using one of the conversion stages, most have 3 stages, preserves battery service life when charging from low voltage state (e.g around 10v per 12v battery not lower, lower = already heavily worn)
-Time based backup function, no thermal sensing/load. Using the UPS at 80% load or 20% will always shutdown after 7 minutes for example, commonly found in fanless models.

Whenever they mention "Generator friendly" = microcontroller inside™, and freq skewing/sync is there, usually a good UPS.

It's a safer bet to go with a cheap online UPS when unsure, although they offer very low quality components and may die early, they do less mistakes on the output. Bear in mind that they don't really offer *pure* sine wave unless PF is 1.0 and less than half the max load rating, else its a smooth jigsaw..
Wave pics, some of these models are sold in Lebanese market: https://www.hardwareinsights.com/databa … veforms/5/

TL;DR: Go with brand names and whatever fits your bill for set and forget experience, oversizing =/= longer backup time, aim for chinese no brand online if ambient noise is nil, no relays, and fans rarely run. Brand name online are incredibly overpriced here unfortunately. New mid range APC models are terrible after Schneider bought the company, models affected 2012 and up. MGE is APC.

*PS: pure sine wave

Last edited by Beta0 (December 4 2020)

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#168 December 5 2020

Tech Guru
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Great info mate , I have a comprehensive overview and you added additional knowledge to my base. So , what do you recommend for the PS5 that is available here? I am seeking a reliable long lasting one.

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#169 December 5 2020

Beta0
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Tech Guru wrote:

Great info mate , I have a comprehensive overview and you added additional knowledge to my base. So , what do you recommend for the PS5 that is available here. I am seeking a reliable long lasting one.

I've moved away from having 5+ UPS to one feeding certain sockets around the house, but from my hands on experience using the  Eaton 5E1500iUSB (used for a decade) the fan is awful I had to replace it with Noctua, else I can't be sure. The DX series online requires external batteries, they're also low frequency which is great but defiantly overkill. The 1kVA APC online SRV 1000VA (high freq) is pretty affordable, remembers silent mode (no beep), correctly rated, fan is less annoying, but only one battery, due to C factor you can't use the full capacity, while the Eaton has 2x 9Ah battery, expect them to be old though, replacing the battery is cheaper on the APC. Eaton and APC should last around 15 minutes with TV and PS5 (around 300W fully loaded), APC does that with one battery due to high frequency, a much faster charging, lower noise, I would go with that. Not to mention that the APC will run 100W (TV only) much longer, Eaton doesn't last more than 40 minutes at no load, while the APC or any high frequency online can pull 3 hours, e.g running a basic router.

Last edited by Beta0 (December 5 2020)

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#170 December 7 2020

Tech Guru
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

With the 1st real comparison of the PS5 against the PC; very impressive results are obtained. PS5 ~ RTX 2080 in rasterization High to Ultra Settings + 16 GB of Vram vs 8 GB + HDMI 2.1 vs 2.0.

Digital Foundry did a Detailed analysis:

https://youtu.be/m9LgfTr517c

Screenshot-20201206-165907-You-Tube.jpg

Last edited by Tech Guru (December 7 2020)

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#171 December 7 2020

Tech Guru
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Update:

Fattal will not receive the next batch from Sony MENA HQ UAE.

All preorders have been canceled since yesterday. People started receiving their dowpayments of full reservation money back.

Prices will skyrocket soon due to low stock and very highdemand. Selling price now 1200 USD minimum.

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#172 December 7 2020

RandomMemory
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Did they lose the license for overpricing just like scalpers?

Last edited by RandomMemory (December 7 2020)

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#173 December 8 2020

ramy58
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Tech Guru wrote:

Update:

Fattal will not receive the next batch from Sony MENA HQ UAE.

All preorders have been canceled since yesterday. People started receiving their dowpayments of full reservation money back.

Prices will skyrocket soon due to low stock and very highdemand. Selling price now 1200 USD minimum.

Who gave you this information?

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#174 December 10 2020

nosense
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

what are you guys playing ?

I am playing cyberpunk 2077 and ghost of tsushima currently, ghost of tsushima is gorgeous in 4k 60.

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#175 December 10 2020

RandomMemory
Member

Re: PlayStation 5 Officially Announced

Demon's souls and FIFA 21 on the ps5. I preordered cyberpunk on PC before I got the ps5 so I will play it there.

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