LebGeeks

ramkam

Member

Hornet Trap / Vespa Orientalis / "Dabbour Ahmar"

Greetings,

Some maker stuff :-)

We've got recurring infestations of oriental hornets (wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_orientalis)

Made some research on these, they're quite fascinating actually, apparently, their yellow stripes have the ability to generate electricity (lol) and their venom is studied as antibacterial for nosocomial (those really nasty hospital bacteria that extend your stay by a lot) ...

Now that the homework is done, these guys are a real pain in the ***. Their sting is wicked f*** aouch aouch aouch, and they're quite aggressive: walk less than 3m and the colony rushes on you, do some noise 30 m away, or some paint job (i guess the solvent attracts them), and same same.

Few weeks ago we've called the usual pest control guy, he did something that did work, but categorically refuses to say which product was used, hence no way to know how toxic it is to humans, plus he bills way way too much for the job (half done, the hornets are back, there was a second spot, and probably other ones too).

So instead of ditching 150$ each time there's new nest, i'm looking on how i can do it myself.

Found some research articles, to sum it up, seems that
* the best pesticide for these is Fipronil
* the best bait attration is minced meat or minced sardines (depending on the researchers)
* traps are made of a water bottle cut in half and the funnel end inverted (so that the happy lad has a hard time going back out)

I'm going to try it, this said,

* My research is certainly partial, and i'm sure one of you have great tips / tricks to get rid of these without making the site a toxic wasteland.

* And i'm looking for indications of where to find some Fipronil in the beirut / dora area (since the eggs scandal, seems to be really hard to get)?

* Some say it's used for pets (dogs, cats or whatever you fancy) hints on brands, dunno who has them in lb: vetcompendium.be/fr/node/3437

* Other say it's used as pesticide in crops and poultry (hence the scandals): crop-protection.basf.ph/sites/basf.ph/files/2018-10/regent-product-label.pdf

* The product has been bought back by different companies, Dupond, then Bayer, then BASF, Boehringer Ingelheim, etc. ...

* It would be really fun to whack the hornet out using an arduino a sensor and servomotors. if you have ideas, shoot :-)

Cheers!

duke-of-bytes

Member

Re: Hornet Trap / Vespa Orientalis / "Dabbour Ahmar"

Fipronil is one of the main chemical causes blamed for the spread of colony collapse disorder among bees .. in my experience as an expat in Congo - big water bucket traps would decimate the hornet population
this is an example that i used , it works well on all protein eating flying insects .. worked wellwith wasps , hornets and even african honey bees
trap

ramkam

Member

Re: Hornet Trap / Vespa Orientalis / "Dabbour Ahmar"

Hey, thanks for the reply
Indeed saw this video shortly after making my post

i guess i can try that first
it's a bit inconvenient to use, as it needs to be refilled every day
but i'm happy not to leave toxins everywhere

then if it doesn't work, quickly revert to fipronil or else ... (let's face it, it's them or me :-), no, it's them or them :-) )
it's probably going to get much worse, as peak population is in sept/october

i also read in some research paper that the most efficient trap by far is a wood sheet, with cockroach glue (gardencol they say)
like making a circle of glue and put the fish meat in the middle

and i just understood how the pest control guy messed it up. A hornet nest has more than one queen, each layer has a queen actually. So the good way of doing it is just spreading the pesticide in the nest, and leave the nest undestroyed. The guy destroyed the nest, so the the rest of the colony just relocated nearby. i guess he wanted another 150 bucks.

Fipronil is one of the main chemical causes blamed for the spread of colony collapse disorder among bees .. in my experience as an expat in Congo - big water bucket traps would decimate the hornet population
this is an example that i used , it works well on all protein eating flying insects .. worked wellwith wasps , hornets and even african honey bees
trap

duke-of-bytes

Member

Re: Hornet Trap / Vespa Orientalis / "Dabbour Ahmar"

Hey, thanks for the reply
Indeed saw this video shortly after making my post

i guess i can try that first
it's a bit inconvenient to use, as it needs to be refilled every day
but i'm happy not to leave toxins everywhere

then if it doesn't work, quickly revert to fipronil or else ... (let's face it, it's them or me :-), no, it's them or them :-) )
it's probably going to get much worse, as peak population is in sept/october

i also read in some research paper that the most efficient trap by far is a wood sheet, with cockroach glue (gardencol they say)
like making a circle of glue and put the fish meat in the middle

and i just understood how the pest control guy messed it up. A hornet nest has more than one queen, each layer has a queen actually. So the good way of doing it is just spreading the pesticide in the nest, and leave the nest undestroyed. The guy destroyed the nest, so the the rest of the colony just relocated nearby. i guess he wanted another 150 bucks.

Fipronil is one of the main chemical causes blamed for the spread of colony collapse disorder among bees .. in my experience as an expat in Congo - big water bucket traps would decimate the hornet population
this is an example that i used , it works well on all protein eating flying insects .. worked wellwith wasps , hornets and even african honey bees
trap

I tried this trap and had a count of more than 1500 wasps in 24 hours..some flies even came by for the meat..the nest was decimated in 2 days

rolf

Member

Re: Hornet Trap / Vespa Orientalis / "Dabbour Ahmar"

* And i'm looking for indications of where to find some Fipronil in the beirut / dora area (since the eggs scandal, seems to be really hard to get)?

Fipronil is a very useful tool for keeping flea infestations under control (but on it's own it is not enough for a serious flea infestation).
But the bottle of 250ml costs like $40 or something - in veterinary shops. If you find cheaper PLEASE let me know, I have already paid a little fortune in Fipronil.

I'm not sure what you intend to do with it though, in your case. I have only used it for pets.

Regarding the hornets, the only thing that comes to mind is a trap. It goes a bit like you cut the top 1/3 of a plastic bottle and stick it back inverted. You will have a trap where flies and hornets will enter and have trouble to get out, because of the shape of it. You will need to put something inside that attracts them.

Some people have experience on the matter. I will ask someone who works in agriculture and has had to deal with this problem, if I get the chance.

ramkam

Member

Re: Hornet Trap / Vespa Orientalis / "Dabbour Ahmar"

Hey Rolf

From my readings - Fipronil is good against invertebrates; is mildly toxic to humans / reversible OR very bad, depends where u read.
However, the idea is to put fipronil on the bait, and have the hornets take it back to the nest. So it's tiny quantities, and their spread is kinda super controlled.

Baits, again, from my readings, the bottle bait, and the funnel mesh bait are way less efficient than a glue like bait. I have no data on the water bait suggested in previous messages, but makes sense, however i guess it really depends if the soap smell will be repelling the hornet (seems not?), and if it's not too sensitive on distance variation between water & bait (othw it needs calibration, meaning, lots of iterations & time, meaning, a few stings and feeding the nest instead of getting rid of it).

For the story, Fipronil is authorized in EU for use on pets, and forbidden when the thing ends up as a consumable, like poultry & eggs, as  you endup eating it, which is bad for you over some dose.  Google "eggs scandal fipronil".
It also affects bees, which are a key operator to the reproduction of plants (no bees, no plants).

I just found out about all these. So haven't really had a chance yet to ask veterinarian / pet shops / distributors.
Thought i'd ask here for recommendation before making calls ...

Regarding your pets, and making your own brew / getting cheaper products. Unless you really really really know what you're doing, i'd super strongly dis-advise playing with these and keep on paying the fortune for your pets, it's part of the therapy ;-)

Cheers

Ram

* And i'm looking for indications of where to find some Fipronil in the beirut / dora area (since the eggs scandal, seems to be really hard to get)?

Fipronil is a very useful tool for keeping flea infestations under control (but on it's own it is not enough for a serious flea infestation).
But the bottle of 250ml costs like $40 or something - in veterinary shops. If you find cheaper PLEASE let me know, I have already paid a little fortune in Fipronil.

I'm not sure what you intend to do with it though, in your case. I have only used it for pets.

Regarding the hornets, the only thing that comes to mind is a trap. It goes a bit like you cut the top 1/3 of a plastic bottle and stick it back inverted. You will have a trap where flies and hornets will enter and have trouble to get out, because of the shape of it. You will need to put something inside that attracts them.

Some people have experience on the matter. I will ask someone who works in agriculture and has had to deal with this problem, if I get the chance.

Last edited by ramkam (August 11 2019)

rolf

Member

Re: Hornet Trap / Vespa Orientalis / "Dabbour Ahmar"

Regarding your pets, and making your own brew / getting cheaper products. Unless you really really really know what you're doing, i'd super strongly dis-advise playing with these and keep on paying the fortune for your pets, it's part of the therapy ;-)

Fipronil is Fipronil, 2.5 mg/ml spray should be the same across brands - or if even you do it yourself.
The rest of the solution is alcohol-based. So I am not too worried because it is a really simple concept.
I am having the same problem with dewormers (sold 5000-10000LL per pill at the vet's).
I plan to look in agricultural/farming/herding supply shops, they might be selling these in bulk.
Then it is just a matter of adapting the dosage. The tolerances in mg/kg of body weight for different species of animals are well known.
Obviously you don't want to be giving the same dosages to a sheep and to a cat!

By the way, Fipronil is also offered for dilution in agricultural water reservoirs, because it blocks the reproduction of mosquitoes in them.

PS: I already discussed this with my cat and you can see how he reacted in my 'profile picture' on the left.

Last edited by rolf (August 12 2019)

ramkam

Member

Re: Hornet Trap / Vespa Orientalis / "Dabbour Ahmar"

Lookup for this on fb - Lebanese Agricultural Research Institute

Regarding your pets, and making your own brew / getting cheaper products. Unless you really really really know what you're doing, i'd super strongly dis-advise playing with these and keep on paying the fortune for your pets, it's part of the therapy ;-)

Fipronil is Fipronil, 2.5 mg/ml spray should be the same across brands - or if even you do it yourself.
The rest of the solution is alcohol-based. So I am not too worried because it is a really simple concept.
I am having the same problem with dewormers (sold 5000-10000LL per pill at the vet's).
I plan to look in agricultural/farming/herding supply shops, they might be selling these in bulk.
Then it is just a matter of adapting the dosage. The tolerances in mg/kg of body weight for different species of animals are well known.
Obviously you don't want to be giving the same dosages to a sheep and to a cat!

By the way, Fipronil is also offered for dilution in agricultural water reservoirs, because it blocks the reproduction of mosquitoes in them.

PS: I already discussed this with my cat and you can see how he reacted in my 'profile picture' on the left.

rolf

Member

Re: Hornet Trap / Vespa Orientalis / "Dabbour Ahmar"

Thank you!