LebGeeks

ali.ba

Member

Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

While browsing the jobs posted by Lebanese companies on LinkedIn, I have noticed some issues that I would like to share with you, and get to know your opinion about it.

1- They simply copy and paste the job requirements from each other, you read the same thing over and over. (Unprofessional)
2- They want you to be the one developer who can do the work of 3 developers, you must know this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and that, and this... totally unrelated stuff. (they like to be cheap, "YES" 3 bi 1)
3- They want you to be good in convincing clients. (I'm not a salesman, I'm a developer, my responsibility is not to deal with clients, I deal with code)
4- They want you to be able to work extra hours and on weekends. (WTF? this is the curse of developers in Lebanon, no other country has this, no other job has this, as long as you have your laptop with you, even in toilet, you must code)
5- They talk to you as if they are the rich King who has power and you are the poor Slave who needs money, from my humble experience, good developers are difficult to find (I'm not one), and companies are dying to find them, and even if they find them, they aren't good at keeping them.
6- My personal opinion: Lebanese companies sucks, poor clients, poor products, poor management and poor sense of programming.

What do you think?

Johnaudi

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

I can't say the same about all of them. But the majority is quite true.

But I assume some companies does not restrict you in their own field here, so freelancing is available, which is nice.

rolf

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

Have had my share of bad experiences with lebanese companies. In fact nothing but that.
I am sure there are some decent or at least half decent companies out there, maybe I was particularly unlucky.

PS: My father runs a half-decent company, but it's in publishing and graphic design for print.

Last edited by rolf (May 19 2015)

Hybrid

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

That's what happens when the director and manager have no technical knowledge whatsoever, and they start putting the deadlines.

It's like a football coach teaching you how to win the Olympics in skiing.

bermudapineapple

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

I'm assuming you're quite young and starting out? Those are just the job descriptions so the company/role looks sounds fancy. They're as much bullshit as half of your CV (e.g. I learned leadership skills from my school role as a prefect). Just apply and you will see you half of those responsibilities disappear. Trust me.

Aly

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

I have to agree with tt400 on this one, not only for developing jobs, many job descriptions are full of bullshit and will make you think that you will be working in a NASA environment, but once you're in half of the responsibility and required tasks disappear.

NuclearVision

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

I am not sure, but does this only apply to developpers?

user

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

My employer wants me to know backend, front end and mobile and talk to the clients. And I think to myself the second I am able to do all that, why the heck do I need to work for him anymore? I am missing the front end skills now.

Also we should look at it both ways, most computer science graduates who know nothing, and fresh out of the university, fill their cv with random programming languages they may have written a hello world in, as if the more the better. (BTW I was guilty of this, my cv actually got twice shorter after 2 years of work experience, now I mention my actual experience, I do not mention languages I merely know, but languages that I have actually built production things in)

rtp

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

Its true, the amount of skills requested in a job ad is ridiculous. Most employers realize that its nearly impossible to have all the skills, so usually they are categories by "required" and "nice to have". Sometimes the required alone can be overwhelming.  I personally would apply for a job where i have like 75% of the required skills. 

I work as a software developer but I assess possible candidates.  For me, personality is very important.  The candidate should be perfectionist, eager to learn, and passionate about programming...  If the person has the right personality with around 75% of the required skills then, that person is a strong candidate for the job.  I think most employers would agree that having the right personality is nearly as important as having the right skills.  There are people who have brilliant skills but are too busy watching youtube instead of working...

A developer should never talk to the client.  That's the job of business analyst and what not.  Clients have a different language then programmers. Usually you want a man in the middle, translating business requirements to programer requirements.  I think you would want to stay away from companies who want you to talk with the client and write code, because that's simply impossible.  To code properly you have to be "isolated" from stupid interferences.  That's one of the main strength of SCRUM methodology...

Its true a lot of software companies expect additional hours for no pay... that's how it is, sadly. I personally don't mind it tho, if it wasn't pushed.  I sometimes work overtime, if I feel like I have to finish sometimes before the day is over, because tomorrow I want to start working on another thing.

In programming you have to keep learning new skill every couple of month. If you don't, you will start lagging behind very fast. Its a double edge sword.  The moment you start getting expert in something, it becomes old news lol.  However, you wont be doing the same job over 40 years...

In conclusion, don't get frighten from the job requirements.  If you have most of the skills, just give it a go. This is life, you have to deal with the situation.  Companies in lebanon are more service driven then "programming" driven and I think that can be said for a lot of companies around the world. If you can't accept the idea of working on your skills and keep learning and working extra hours.  Then programming might not be the best direction for you. Maybe you should go to a more business oriented position. I might become a fire fighter (not in lebanon) and ditch my programming career. As the quote goes "you are not a tree, you can move".  If you don't like something you can move, to a new company to a new career etc... Either way, nothing ever stays the same.

ali.ba

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

Thank you guys for your feedback, but let me clear some points.

I'm not looking for a job or even interested in applying for these stupid positions, I already have one, I was just checking LinkedIn.

The issue here is not if some developer should apply for these jobs or not, for me, it's even stupid to just have 1% of positivity about it.

The issue is that, do companies have the right to ask for:
- Extra Work Hours + Weekend, for nothing in return (Shu Ana Khaddem 3end Yalli Khallafon?) I know in some countries you're not even allowed to check your email after 6PM, well our bosses can reach us on Whatsapp in Lebanon, at anytime.
- Knowledge in many technologies that aren't related, we may even speak of 2 simple levels, "Frontend" and "Backend", but even these 2 "positions" are subcatogerized later on, and I have the right to be only responsible of a sub category, I worked once as frontend developer with lots of CSS and JS, and now I'm working as Java developer, yes I have good knowledge in both but I am damn sure that I'll never be Level 10 in each, if I keep working in each, I have the right to work only as a frontend developer (which will allow me to reach level 10).
- Speak to clients, again, who is the f*cking genius who brought this concept to Lebanese companies?

Again, Lebanese IT Companies (Development specifically) are a bunch of loosers, unprofessional, uneducated, pointless, useless group of ignorant Google-wannabe companies who only care about making money in the fastest way possible, by taking stupid projects, dealing with stupid clients, in a stupid way.

Sorry for being mad, but I just am.

user

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

No matter what though, you'll always have a boss, even if you own your own company. Lebanese clients are annoying, they ask for a site with ABC. And after the design is done, the development is done, the money is spent, they decide to change their minds about key things.

Sup3r

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

Just work as a freelancer, you'll get much more value for your time.

Personally I refuse to have any kind of boss.

Last edited by Sup3r (May 31 2015)

user

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

And you manage to find enough jobs to keep you busy?

Also I cannot handle regular people because I cannot design, I cannot do a big html page and make it look professional. What I do depends on others...

Hybrid

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

And you manage to find enough jobs to keep you busy?

Also I cannot handle regular people because I cannot design, I cannot do a big html page and make it look professional. What I do depends on others...

Learn it, it's easy, and if you mean you don't have the design creativity to create a good looking page, then copy other sites and put little enhancements... You would be amazed on how many sites look the same.

Alternatively, you can ask the client to send you a PSD of how every page should look like.

rolf

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

And you manage to find enough jobs to keep you busy?

Also I cannot handle regular people because I cannot design, I cannot do a big html page and make it look professional. What I do depends on others...

I have been doing freelance for years. I don't do the design, although I could (it took me a while to gather enough confidence to say that) but clients usually prefer the reassurance of dealing with a pro graphic designers, even if it costs much more. Not all of them though. Some expect me to do everything for very cheap. Sometimes we reach a compromise, sometimes not.

So I work with a bunch of graphic designers.

The tricky part is the client. I got referred by designers. Many clients will come back to you with requests, modifications, etc.

If you're looking for a designer I can help you maybe.

I think freelancers should network and talk to each other, even if we're competing with each other for jobs.

Oh and please don't break prices too much, you will not be happy, your competitor fellow freelancers will not be happy either, and chances are the customer will not be happy too because if he's asking you to work for almost free he doesn't appreciate your work and will not be happy anyway.

And you manage to find enough jobs to keep you busy?

Depends, most of the time no, to be honest. But I think it's possible.
What bothers me the most is that working with computer was like a hobby, but when you're forced too it's not the same.

Last edited by rolf (June 9 2015)

user

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

I don't think freelancing is for me. I enjoy working with other developers, because it often means I know things they do not know and vice versa and we share. And I especially like to work with curious developers who always like to find better ways to do things and like to try new things, and regrettably I am not doing so right now.

I feel like I am trading days of my life for money without experience, almost like standing still. I am afraid freelancing might also be the same, sure I get paid but without a lead dev I can look up to or peers that will criticise my code, I won't be moving forward.

What I do hate, and probably what you guys hate as well, is working for irrational dumb employers who just expect stuff to be magically done in high quality no bugs and extremely fast time without them having to invest in good equipment, salary or the right environment. But I don't have problems working for good employers.

jsaade

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

And you manage to find enough jobs to keep you busy?

Also I cannot handle regular people because I cannot design, I cannot do a big html page and make it look professional. What I do depends on others...

I have been doing freelance for years. I don't do the design, although I could (it took me a while to gather enough confidence to say that) but clients usually prefer the reassurance of dealing with a pro graphic designers, even if it costs much more. Not all of them though. Some expect me to do everything for very cheap. Sometimes we reach a compromise, sometimes not.

So I work with a bunch of graphic designers.

The tricky part is the client. I got referred by designers. Many clients will come back to you with requests, modifications, etc.

If you're looking for a designer I can help you maybe.

I think freelancers should network and talk to each other, even if we're competing with each other for jobs.

Oh and please don't break prices too much, you will not be happy, your competitor fellow freelancers will not be happy either, and chances are the customer will not be happy too because if he's asking you to work for almost free he doesn't appreciate your work and will not be happy anyway.

And you manage to find enough jobs to keep you busy?

Depends, most of the time no, to be honest. But I think it's possible.
What bothers me the most is that working with computer was like a hobby, but when you're forced too it's not the same.

Interesting.
My question would be how do you manage your finances as you do not have a "monthly" income. So most porbably you have faced difficulties getting a car or personal loan.. I would believe getting a house loan is nearly impossible (unless your freelancing made you rich which I doubt in our precious economy/country).

rolf

Member

Re: Developers should be robots in Lebanon?

Like I said it does not pay well for me but I'm sure it can for some people.
It's also very boring to work alone all the time.
But the programming job market is not a fairy wonderland either, you know?