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  • Linus Torvalds Not a Fan of Gnome 3

Hello Lebgeeks,
Linus Torvalds piped up in the comments of a Google+ posting:

+Cyrill Gorcunov: it's not that I have rendering problems with gnome3 (although I do have those too), it's that the user experience of Gnome3 even without rendering problems is unacceptable.

Why can't I have shortcuts on my desktop? Why can't I have the expose functionality? Wobbly windows? Why does anybody sane think that it's a good idea to have that "go to the crazy 'activities'" menu mode?

I used to be upset when gnome developers decided it was "too complicated" for the user to remap some mouse buttons. In gnome3, the developers have apparently decided that it's "too complicated" to actually do real work on your desktop, and have decided to make it really annoying to do.

Here's an example of "the crazy": you want a new terminal window. So you go to "activities" and press the "terminal" thing that you've made part of your normal desktop thing (but why can't I just have it on the desktop, instead of in that insane "activities" mode?). What happens? Nothing. It brings your existing terminal to the forefront.

That's just crazy crap. Now I need to use Shift-Control-N in an old terminal to bring up a new one. Yeah, that's a real user experience improvement. Sure.

I'm sure there are other ways, but that's just an example of the kind of "head up the arse" behavior of gnome3. Seriously. I have been asking other developers about gnome3, they all think it's crazy.

I'm using Xfce. I think it's a step down from gnome2, but it's a huge step up from gnome3. Really.
Source in google plus comments : https://plus.google.com/106327083461132854143/posts/SbnL3KaVRtM#106327083461132854143/posts/SbnL3KaVRtM


also see : http://www.osnews.com/story/25022/


i always hated gnome3, Best regards
there are many things that have taken a turn for the worst lately in the opensource world, ce domage!
He's just ... an old kernel developer. He wants his comfortable environment where he has all his old habits are.
I admire the guy, but I don't think he's not gonna revolutionize the Desktop.

GNOME, Unity, KDE, enlightenment ... those Environments are made by a different generation of Linux hackers whose mind is more flexible for the desktop.

GNOME3 and Unity are directly competing with the best UIs in the market. But I'm sure there'll still be a niche of "old school" UI users. Expect a GNOME2 fork soon.

PS: I have never used GNOME3 or Unity. I run Openbox.
I used GNOME 3 for a couple of months. It's ok once you develop a regular workflow, but I can identify with some of the problems Linus mentions. It is weird.

I've since switched to xmonad in an attempt to get myself into the Haskell mindset. However, I learned today that there's a GNOME 2 fork called Mate. That's the open source philosophy at work, the source is available and people with an itch to scratch can use it.

The same thing happened when KDE went from 3.5 to 4.0. Now there's a KDE 3.5 fork called Trinity and it works really well.

Hopefully, within a few releases the GNOME 3 desktop will regain some sanity.
rahmu wroteI admire the guy, but I don't think he's not gonna revolutionize the Desktop.


PS: I have never used GNOME3 or Unity. I run Openbox.
double negation ..
It's all relative. I really loved Gnome 3 and in all honesty i wish they dropped backwards compatibility as well, forcing everyone to port to GTK3. Gnome 2 (and gtk 2) are simply weak. UI wise, linux is still by far the worst of all operating systems, the Gnome team is trying to revolutionize and the KDE team is doing a nice job. Canonical failed with Unity big time.

Again, that's all relative, so the very next statement is purely my sentiment which you can agree on or simply ignore.

"We're in 2011 and we don't need Linus Torvalds's thoughts on anything UI based."

I want Linux UI to match the amazing OS X in terms of L&F, usability and smoothness and Gnome 3 is the only desktop leading up to that.
my personal opinion is that gnome and kde should merge. on top of that, a light version should be spiced by enlightment and xfce.

it really gets on my nerves when there is not a streamlined desktop. SLES/OpenSUSE uses KDE and RHEL/fedora uses gnome. should one give up on either, that would mean the end of that story. as a simple desktop without anything fancy, i would go with gnome, as a more full fledged desktop, i would go with KDE. as for something that could be easily tweaked and hacked, then blackbox/xfce.
@saeidw: Thanks for the links man ^^
6 days later
@rahmu: You're welcome!

Sorry to bring this thread back, but I just read a blog post by Bradley Kuhn of the Software Freedom Conservancy about this whole GNOME 3 issue.

I've had this tab open in my browser for a week and just got around to reading it. I don't usually agree with his views on open source but this caught my attention:
Bradley Kuhn wroteI hope that other old-school geeks will see this distinction: we're past the era when every Free Software project is targeted at us hackers specifically. Failing to notice this will cause us to ignore the deeper problem software freedom faces. GNOME Foundation's Executive Director ... Karen Sandler pointed out in her OSCON keynote something that's bothered her and me for years: the majority computer at OSCON is Apple hardware running OSX. ... That's the world we're living in now. Users who actually know about “Open Source” are now regularly enticed to give up software freedom for shiny things.
That made me realize something: GNOME 3 (and KDE 4) is designed for those users. In a sense, it is a bad attempt at copying the OS X look-and-feel. The net positive that results from it is that users who might have chosen a closed-source system might instead choose something open source because it's functionally and visually the same.

It's a bad attempt, but it might get better in the future. That's something to think about.
As for us "old-school geeks", we'll always have our toys to play with. :)
As for us "old-school geeks", we'll always have our toys to play with. :)
Allow me to add that our "old toys" keep getting better, faster and overall more powerful than ever. If you look at current state of Openbox or Fluxbox, you can't deny that.

I completely agree with saeidw. This year's estimate show that around 90 million people use linux on the desktop. It is far beyond the community of Unix hackers compiling their kernels on embedded devices. We have people looking for a free (speech and beer) alternative to current systems. Windows interface is shaping up, Mac is shaping up, Android is shaping up, iOS, and we're reacting to that.
22 days later
Personally i hate GNOME 3, due its limitation, simplicity with less functionality...

:D just as opinion fact...
I didnt like GNOME3 so i uninstalled it and installed Ubuntu 10.10
fixed the problem
bluewolf wroteI didnt like GNOME3 so i uninstalled it and installed Ubuntu 10.10
fixed the problem
you do not need to install another distro to change your x-windows desktop framework!

i happened to reinstall my private laptop, an old dell inspiron 1501 which works great with suse 11.4. so far, the most annoying thing has been the alt-tab. unlike the way it has worked in the past, with kde4, it just screens the next window and i really can not tell where to am i about to land. i have to check whether there is a tweak/option to rid that totally hideous implemenation.

both gnome and kde have miserably failed with the current releases (gnome3 and kde4). the great thing is what history has tought us is that when people start to whine, things start to change. so the next update or version should fix up a lot of things.

i still consider that there are one too many major brands (gnome/kde). one should be terminated and resources should be concentrated into one. in regards to both, both are just approaching the tip of the iceberg towards what a totally functional desktop requires. that is why i favor opensuse as a desktop because it is (to my experience) the only distro closest fits a single user desktop environment, is opensuse 11.4. not the best but sure does beat the rest.

just as was pointed, there are more users than developers, so in that sence, a lighter release does great. it is sad to see how many undermine and question the sort of fluxbox/blackbox/xfce since they do really work!

when i think of my linux desktop usage, it mostly combines 90% terminal windows, 5% notepad and 5% web/file browser. based on this, it really doesnt matter what desktop i use since they all function. the most common issue is the cut and paste. its funny how we have come so far but yet simple cut/paste can be a challenge.

most of what i do is command line based, i have no patience nor interest in applying the same work thru gui.
especially noting that some fine tuning just require more parameters which are easier to supply on a command line than to click next-next-next-wait for the wizard-next-next-next. the gui does not server any automation features or functions where ase with a shell, i can script and forloop stuff. i do not even want to dive into macro-commanding a gui desktop on a linux, it is anything work efficient. some things are just not meant to be done via the gui so whatever bells and whistles are added, they only become a nussance, just as happened with gnome3 and kde4.
bluewolf wroteI didnt like GNOME3 so i uninstalled it and installed Ubuntu 10.10
fixed the problem
OMG lol, as a basic form of explanation, you don't even uninstall GNOME3 neither the whole Ubuntu, before you login, at the session bar select Ubuntu classic, then it will be just like before.
A lot of people are moving away from Ubuntu 11.04 because of Unity, as they are unaware of the existence of "Classic" login. It's the second time today I hear (see) someone in that situation.

Maybe the fine folks at Canonical should think about putting the "Classic" alternative more forward for the upcoming release (what animal is it this time?).