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Thanks Mesa, thanks alot.
mesa177 wroteFor now, I recognize the Cutera laser treatment better than PDL. No wonder why they traded PDL for Cutera at AUH... Smart dermatologists I guess :)
Funnily enough, I asked the dermatologist the following question: (Dermatologist that was in the ward at the time of my call)

Why did you switch from PDL to Cutera ?

To my shock, the answer was:

Honestly, because our PDL machine stopped working.

-

Now you've given me a lot to think about. I need to check whether Dr. Dany Touma uses PDL or Cutera, because if he uses PDL and based on your research, I'd much rather go to AUH.
xterm wroteFunnily enough, I asked the dermatologist the following question: (Dermatologist that was in the ward at the time of my call)

Why did you switch from PDL to Cutera ?

To my shock, the answer was:

Honestly, because our PDL machine stopped working.
That's actually not weird, hospitals do it all the time: they send a machine to get fixed, but the company to which they sent it too says the repair cost xx $. They find it not worth the cost, and end up buying a new machine because it's a cheaper solution (just like the tale of the printer and the ink cartridges).

Do take your time, because based on my research you shouldn't start the treatment course in the summer because of the sun-burns. It's best to start in a month when the weather cools down like October.
mesa177 wroteDo take your time, because based on my research you shouldn't start the treatment course in the summer because of the sun-burns. It's best to start in a month when the weather cools down like October.
Thats one of the issues I've been pondering about, I'm going to see what the doctor recommends. We could easily avoid sun exposure but if just plain heat is a factor, I guess we'll have to wait.

I wonder if other parents spent that much effort in research, it's just too damn annoying to want to know something yet not be able to easily acquire information.

I have half a mind to initiate a website to cover information concerning birthmarks that could easily guide parents to solutions without having to deal with intermediate research material. If not I'm just going to expose everything I've documented so far including progress images of the birthmark pre and post surgery alongside anything I've learned.
Part 2: Treatment Methods and Favorable Machines Used - Port-wine Stains

How are port-wine stains treated? What is the most favorable form and device for treatment?

Physicians have tried a series of treatments for Port-wine stains, including radiation (laser treatment such as PDL or 532 nm KTP laser beams), tattooing (I’m just as surprised), freezing (the skin cells are literally frozen and destroyed using an extremely cold liquid or instrument; the technique is known as cryotherapy or cryosurgery), dermabrasion (or surgical skin planing, it is a procedure in which the skin is frozen and then a specialized instrument is used to "sand" the skin), and sclerotherapy (a procedure that involves the injection of a chemical irritant into a vein to sclerose or "harden" it). The only therapy procedure that does not cause damage to the rest of the skin while destroying the skin’s capillaries is laser treatment (PDL and KTP alike).

Pulsed dye laser (PDL) is a vascular laser (i.e. laser that targets blood and vein-caused imperfections). It uses yellow light wavelengths (585-600nm) that selectively target both oxyhemoglobin (hemoglobin that is bound to oxygen O2, where hemoglobin is a protein found in red blood cells or RBCs and is responsible for transporting O2) and deoxyhemoglobin (hemoglobin that is not bound to O2). The latter procedure is known as photothermolysis (“photos” is Greek for light, “thermo” is Greek for heat, and “lysis” is Greek for separate or breaking down of cell). PDLs penetrate up to 2 mm in the skin. Newborns and young children, who have thinner skin, tend to respond well to this type of laser; the response in thicker and darker lesions may be lower.
Despite the fact that PDL is a wide form of treatment, some studies (“Treatment of port wine stains with the pulse dye laser” published in “Annals of Plastic Surgery”, Vol. 56, Ed. 4, pages 460-463, April 2006 and “Treatment of port wine stains using the pulsed-dye laser at 585 nm with the dynamic cooling device”, Vol. 2, Ed. 1, pages 33-36, March 2000) and customer feedbacks reveal that treatment with first generation PDL can sometimes be ineffective (when treatment is commenced at older ages at which the port-wine stain has become darker or when the port-wine stain is hypertrophic i.e. excessively accumulated) where they are unable to remove every vascular lesion entirely (just make them less obvious). Also, PDL can cause skin bruising which should lessen on the longer run. PDL is not meant for tan, olive, or brown skin (Fitzpatrick type IV, V or VI respectively) as it highly causes pigment changes, namely discoloration. Naturally, PDL is not meant for women who are pregnant or breast-feeding.

Another form of PDL called the flashlamp-pumped pulsed dye laser or FPDL has shown significant improvement in treating port-wine stains for infants and young children. This is because FPDL emits 577-585 nm laser beams at a pulse duration (exposure time per pulse) of 450 μs to 1.5 ms; this limits the destruction of skin cells and heat dissipation to the targeted vasculature without causing damage to the surrounding structures in the epidermis or dermis (layman terms: it destroys only the hemoglobin in vein cells that need destruction without affecting surrounding skin cells and structures). Furthermore, second generation PDLs and FPDLs employ longer wavelengths, higher fluences (radiation dose), longer pulse widths (lower frequencies), and using dynamic cooling devices (DCD). DCD allows the application of higher fluences while reducing the risk of epidermal damage. However, like PDL, FPDL can be ineffective for people older than 6 years.

The amount of fluence needed, the amount of treatment sessions, and the cost of treatment sessions rely on a) the dermatologist’s assessment of the thickness and severeness of the port-wine stain b) the center’s equipment c) the dermatologist’s fees. On average, treatment sessions can cost 300$ to 2000$. For infants and young children (less than 10 years old), the 90-95% of the port-wine stain is treated (almost 100% of patients). For other age ranges, 80% of patients can have 90-95% of the stain treated while others can have up to 70% of the stain treated.

The most renowned machine used for PDL treatment is the Candela V-Beam Perfecta. It’s the most reliable and the DCD system is very good for pain relief.



Another form of port-wine stain treatment is Q-switched laser such as KTP laser and Nd:YAG laser treatment. As mentioned before:
1- KTP laser: a beam generated by a neodymium:YAG i.e. Nd:YAG laser is directed through a potassium titanyl phosphate crystal to produce a beam in the green visible spectrum; used for photoablation and photocoagulation. The wavelength of KTP laser beams is 532 nm, meaning that more heat will be absorbed by the targeted hemoglobin than other chromophores such as melanin (protein whose presence determines skin color). The 532 nm KTP laser allows higher selectivity in photothermolysis. In analyzing the choice between 532 nm and the 585 or 595 nm PDL wavelengths, there will be higher melanin absorption at 532 nm. However, 532 nm also has a higher hemoglobin absorption coefficient, with the result that the selectivity between hemoglobin and melanin is actually better at 532 nm. This better selectivity at 532 nm means there is a greater range between the fluence for effective treatments and the fluence for epidermal damage when compared to the PDL wavelengths, improving the safety profile for treatments. Also, for PDL resistant port-wine stains, the KTP laser treatment shows better improvement for lightening of stain.

2- neodymium:yttrium-aluminum-garnet (Nd:YAG) laser: a laser whose active medium is a crystal of yttrium, aluminum, and garnet doped with neodymium ions, and whose beam is in the near infrared spectrum at 1060 nm; used for photocoagulation and photoablation. The Nd:YAG laser beams are only used to treat extremely hypertrophic port-wine stains (deep vascular condition).

The latest machines for KTP and Nd:YAG laser treatments is the Cutera Excel V:





The Cutera has a mode that dispenses 532 nm KTP laser beams and 2 modes that are capable of dispensing Nd:YAG laser beams up to 1064 nm. Plus, it’s equipped with a patented hand-piece that allows better visibility of treatment area, adjustment of spot size (again, better focus on treatment area i.e. target vessel), and continuous contact cooling (better visibility and patient protection especially epidermis).

Finally, IPL or intense pulsed light laser treatment: one of the worst options around, just forget about it (around 40% lower treatment response compared to FPDL and KTP laser treatments).
Mesa thanks a lot. Very informative, I'm beginning to think PDL is still the better option.
rolf wrotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port-wine_stain#Treatment

It's a birthmark, I think it's OK to leave it, especially in this case where it's on the neck so it doesn't look bad.

Just my 2 cents.
At this age the birthmark although noticeable, is banile. When the child grows up, it will definitely affect him psychologically and might affect him physically. If I can treat it, I might as well, don't you think?
@xterm: Since Raul is still very young,and his birthmark is on the neck, yes it doesn't matter if you choose PDL or KTP. If you can choose FPDL, go for it. However, for older children and port-wine stains on limbs, and in case of PDL resisting stains and early cases of hemangiomas, KTP is the better option. Your choice actually lies in picking a good dermatologist.

@rolf: xterm has a point. Now it's not a problem physically, but it will grow darker as Raul gets older. Depending on his personality, he can get affected by it psychologically (especially if kids at school tease him about it). He might end up only being comfortable in wearing turtle neck sweaers and nothing else. Even if it doesn't do anything physical, he can become an introvert and being very timid. To you, it may not sound like a big deal, but this is huge: a shy person can turn into a passive-aggresive person especially when he/she doesn't express their opinion. He/she would shy away from participating, ending up curbing their creativity and follow the flow. A person with a stronger personality can end up controlling them, which is a parent's greatest fear in adolesence. I've met a couple of teenagers who popped pills cause their "friend" told them to.
I just contacted Dr. Touma again, he has Cutera.
xterm wroteMesa thanks a lot. Very informative, I'm beginning to think PDL is still the better option.
rolf wrotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port-wine_stain#Treatment

It's a birthmark, I think it's OK to leave it, especially in this case where it's on the neck so it doesn't look bad.

Just my 2 cents.
At this age the birthmark although noticeable, is banile. When the child grows up, it will definitely affect him psychologically and might affect him physically. If I can treat it, I might as well, don't you think?
Yes, I agree on treating it, and it's easier to remove it earlier.
It might affect him but who doesn't have a small physical deformity... it's something that can be dealt with I believe.
I think you're doing the right thing, just saying don't worry if it does not work, and proceed cautiously. That's my advice. But you might already know that.

@mesa177 you got so far as to talk about popping pills... now little Raul will be popping pills because his dad did not treat his port-wine stain? That's exactly the thinking I was trying to steer away from.
( I know it was an example of how teenager are influencable, but I think that for each example you give me I can also give you an example about the strength of will of children and how life can overcome things. )

PS: I was considered a timid and introvert child. But looking back now I often believe that what harmed me the most is not being timid and introverted but thinking that I am somehow different and had to change - not to be introverted anymore and to be like everyone else. I believe that often the fear of adults and their will to protect me and to "fix" me served to reinforce this harmful belief.
rolf wrotePS: I was considered a timid and introvert child. But looking back now I often believe that what harmed me the most is not being timid and introverted but thinking that I am somehow different and had to change - not to be introverted anymore and to be like everyone else. I believe that often the fear of adults and their will to protect me and to "fix" me served to reinforce this harmful belief.
You're still by far, the most shy guy I know! In fact when I first met you were so calm, but I think i really played a role in getting you to open up! Amiright amiright? :-)
xterm wrote
rolf wrotePS: I was considered a timid and introvert child. But looking back now I often believe that what harmed me the most is not being timid and introverted but thinking that I am somehow different and had to change - not to be introverted anymore and to be like everyone else. I believe that often the fear of adults and their will to protect me and to "fix" me served to reinforce this harmful belief.
You're still by far, the most shy guy I know! In fact when I first met you were so calm, but I think i really played a role in getting you to open up! Amiright amiright? :-)
I have to say I don't think I ever met someone before you who got excited by programming technologies and talked about it, while still not being a hard-to-socialize-with or annoying person and staying modest. It might very well have had a good influence on me.

I'm not sure what you have in mind though... I am often calm when I meet people at first but then I can be terrible later on...
@mesa177 you got so far as to talk about popping pills... now little Raul will be popping pills because his dad did not treat his port-wine stain? That's exactly the thinking I was trying to steer away from.
( I know it was an example of how teenager are influencable, but I think that for each example you give me I can also give you an example about the strength of will of children and how life can overcome things. )
You didn't get my point, I'm 100% sure Raul isn't going to pop pills because of a port-wine stain. The idea was to show you that children's psychological health is just as important to pay attention to as physical health. Raul is lucky to have his on his neck, others have it on their face. Worse, what about children with hemangiomas? You may have been timid and introvert by nature (you like your space and calmness, and you probably spent a lot of time thinking about stuff and try to make sense of it, I know because I was timid too as a child). The horrible situation arises when kids get forced into being timid (physical deformations, no port-wine stains doesn't count, dysfunctional family, abusive parents, etc...). No, not all kids turn into shy people because of it (actually, some turn the other way round: controlling and manipulative, though some can be abusive as well).

PS: rolf, what are you doing this Saturday? Care to join our team for this event? You seem like you have the right spirit :)
rolf wrotethinking that I am somehow different and had to change...to be like everyone else
No kid should be the same as others!! It's personality that counts. Some parents don't get it, forcing a kid to socialize is wrong: let them do it on their own. They'll click in a group they're comfortable with, they can't be forced into making friends. Parents are only supposed to moderate these friends and weed out those who have bad influence. "Being different" is fundamental for nurturing creativity: you can think about one way to approach a problem while the other thinks of another. Friends who think differently end up complementing each other, and that's why we have best friends.
xterm wroteI just contacted Dr. Touma again, he has Cutera.
Ok, 2 for Cutera and 0 for PDL so far. How about Clemenceau Medical Center? Have you contacted them?
I personally am with treating this before he becomes aware of his surroundings. And it's better to hush about it for the rest of his lengthy life time. ( not that its important or anything, but you dont know what could happen inside his young mind)

Simple things in the eyes of kids become mountains :)
mesa177 wroteOk, 2 for Cutera and 0 for PDL so far. How about Clemenceau Medical Center? Have you contacted them?
Not yet, will call them today. By the way I'm scheduling an appointment next week with dr. Dany Touma I'll report back with the diagnosis.

Mesa what's Gemini Laser treatment?

By the way I saw sample treatment sessions on YouTube, doesn't look all that bad. I have a question though, the tip of the handle that the doctor grabs, is a circle, I presume this shields then skin from getting touched by the laser, my question is does the laser affect the entire area of that circle or a smaller portion (like a point, a la tattoo needles)
@xterm: Gemini is a machine brand, just like Cutera, that offers Q-switched laser treatment i.e. 532 nm KTP and 1064 nm Nd:YAG laser beams. More about it here.

No, the treatment isn't bad, but the laser treatment is like small electrocution pulses: adults can handle it, but for an infant they use sedatives because they can jitter and the dermatologist doesn't want to expose other skin areas to unnecessary radiation, especially ones that affect the level of melanin.

The tip of the handle is a circular metal for two reasons:

1) it restricts the treatment area, but the entire area doesn't get exposed to radiation (a la tattoo needles style to quote your words); this is more for the guidance comfort of the dermatologist (they can directly see the response of the vessels and adjust parameters as required => better visibility)
2) it provides contact cooling

Waiting for your assessment of Dr. Touma's appointment. Best of luck :)
mesa177 wroteHow about Clemenceau Medical Center? Have you contacted them?
I contacted Clemenceau Medical Center, they do not have laser based surgeries.
21 days later
Today at work I had to fix an IPL machine whose probe resembles that of a Cutera's so I thought I'd post some shots to show you exactly how the aperture (from which the laser is emitted) looks like, and how the cooling circle is hollow:

Basic IPL probe:



Hollow cooling circle (reserved at a temperature of no more than 25 degrees Celsius) and it's extension which focuses laser emission onto skin from shown apertures:



Frontal view of focus lens and emission apertures on IPL probe:



This is a video link showing how the laser is emitted through the apertures on the IPL probe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81Yk0910eYU
24 days later
Mesa,

Do you possibly know the average price of PDL machines?
It really depends on a couple of factors, mainly condition (used, second hand, brand new) and brand (chinese or any other brand like the Candela). On average (without shipping and freight costs), used Chinese models can come at 8,000$ to 12,000$ while Candela VBeam for example can come at 20,000$ to 35,000$. Brand new machines come at 15,000$ to 20,000$ for Chinese models whereas the Candela VBeam Perfecta is priced at 60,000$ to 100,000$ (according to year of manufacturing and distributor).