I always wondered the differences between computer science and computer engineer. the topic about computer engineer was opened so now I have an idea about computer engineer. But what about computer science ? just like the question that jadf24 asked about computer engineer I want to ask about computer science. what it actually is, how many years it takes, job offers, how hard it really is ect ect ..
and thanks.
computer engineer is more like an electrical engineer with good programming knowledge
computer science = pure programming and coding (in lebanon ... Better now ?)
Just do not ask the definition from a computer engineer as they think they actually know so much about development they can tell the "computer scientists" how to do stuff.
In reality it takes a lot of software engineering and experience for a software developer to become a "software engineer" which is very different than a "computer engineer". Sadly in our messed up system in lebanon, a real "Software Engineer" (as Opposed to a Computer Engineer who majored the last year in Software) cannot enter the na2ebeh as he is not considered truly as an engineer even-though in some cases a software engineer would take more courses than a computer engineer.
unforgiven wrotecomputer engineer is more like an electrical engineer with good programming knowledge
computer science = pure programming and coding
The misinformed informing.
This topic seems to come back all the time. There has been countless arguments and discussions about that. The oldtimers of the forum are all smiling when seeing this thread.

Here's how I see it:

Engineers are trained to solve problems and manage projects. More than simply coding, they learn how to control a budget, how to control deadlines, manage teams, read about new technologies, they know about the legal constraints, etc. They are perfectly trained to work in a corporate environment.

Scientists as you can guess have a more academic aproach. This means they focus on the theory behind computation, learn to solve advanced (and somewhat useless) problems and exercises. And they work a lot on research (if you do a masters or PhD). They find the theories that engineers will use someday on their projects.

I am an engineer. While I simply love what I do, I would highly recommend people who love programming to go into computer science. And definitely chose a curriculum with strong emphasis on Maths. You'd be working on the most interesting problems in computing today.

As for job opportunities, I'll let someone who knows the Lebanese market better than me present it.
For the love of god.
Engineers are trained to solve problems and manage projects. More than simply coding, they learn how to control a budget, how to control deadlines, manage teams, read about new technologies, they know about the legal constraints, etc. They are perfectly trained to work in a corporate environment.
That has NOTHING to do with engineering, and nothing to do with a computer scientist. How many times must i explain that project management and such has nothing to do with engineering or science.

This is the misconception that people have which pollutes the minds of engineering majoring looking down on other majors. If this is the case in colleges outside Lebanon, it's not over here. There's no such major object where students get told in orientation.

If you choose an engineering degree, you'll get to manage teams
ballouta wroteI always wondered the differences between computer science and computer engineer. the topic about computer engineer was opened so now I have an idea about computer engineer. But what about computer science ? just like the question that jadf24 asked about computer engineer I want to ask about computer science. what it actually is, how many years it takes, job offers, how hard it really is ect ect ..
and thanks.
Simply put,

1- You'll pay more in a computer engineering degree for skills that you will very rarely use in Lebanon.
2- The market for a computer scientist (Sadly this is within the vicinity of "Software Development") is high, you will find jobs very fast.
3- It's usually a 3 year curriculum.
4- It's as hard as you want it and as simple as YOU make it.
5- It's the single most annoying field possible in which you will have brain damage from having to stay up to date with technologies.

The single fact remains that some of the highest paid jobs in Lebanon as well as some of the lowest paid jobs are related to software development.
While undertaking my BSc in Mechatronics engineering, it entailed Engineering Economics, and Operations Research (Engineering Management is the name of the course). These courses are more focused and harder than what the business management students take themselves. Some of the engineers are expected to manage other engineers and field workers. That's why Mech/Elec/Civil Engineers take these courses. Software engineers face engineering management problems of a different kind that are more intimate and closer to the nature of their own problems (to manage their team, the most efficient way is to do their individual tasks better).

That's all opinion anyway. Computer Science is theory, Computer Engineering is hardware, Software Engineering is the management of software production complexity (and people abroad have debated whether software development have reached a state where you can ever tag an engineering to it). Have fun figuring your way out of this mess.
If you choose an engineering degree, you'll get to manage teams
No. They say: If you choose an engineering degree, we will teach you to manage teams.

We have had extended courses on project management techniques, reporting, Communication Skills, Consulting, etc.

I am talking about 30% of our classes. That doesn't mean Computer Scientists cannot act like project manager, but engineers are taught how to do it constantly. Control a real budget. For example, we built a home security system based on facial recognition. We had a real budget of 2000euros. A team of 5 people with different skills (some electronics guys, other in telecom, me software). We made a planning over 9 months, were given a budget, had to study different libraries (openCV). We even tracked the legal bullshit about filming in the street. The point is that coding is aroung 25% of your focus.

I think computer scientists code better than we do. As a matter of fact, most of the code I enjoy reading comes from computer scientists. Their code is always clean. Engineers? We write some pretty messed up things. But hey we're trained to do the mess in half the time it would've taken you to do it.
xterm wroteThe single fact remains that some of the highest paid jobs in Lebanon as well as some of the lowest paid jobs are related to software development.
I have yet to find a software development job that pays good money in Lebanon. Could you name the job title of such positions?

Now in reply to the topic starter concerning how hard it is to go for a computer science degree. I am currently studying MIS (Management Information Systems) at the Lebanese University. MIS is basically the following formula:
MIS = (Computer Science) - (A few courses of Math & Physics) + (A whole lot of business courses)
So anyway, MIS is assumed to be the toughest major in the Faculty of Economic Sciences & Business Administration. On the other hand, I find it to be the easiest thing you could ever study. The difference between someone like me and my classmates is that I do not rely on what my professors blab about in class. Hence I spend the majority of my time at home reading books/tutorials, watching video training courses and coding/experimenting on my own. I never really study for my exams and yet I'm getting very high grades (thankfully). On the other hand, with the exception of 3 to 5 guys/girls, my classmates are literally struggling to pass any of the courses that are given although these courses do not go beyond the very basics of the topic. So what I'm trying to say (and what xterm is trying to say as well), it's not the major you choose that is hard or easy, it's all up to you and the time and effort you spend to learn on your own.
arithma wroteOperations Research (Engineering Management is the name of the course).
This is by far, the most annoying course I've taken. I hated the gutts of this course and I still do not know how I managed to pass it. It was not part of my major, but it was an obligatory course as part of the business courses I've taken before getting into the actual MIS major.
Kassem wroteI have yet to find a software development job that pays good money in Lebanon. Could you name the job title of such positions?
Yes, fresh graduate computer science major for the position of junior software developer. I've mentioned this in other topics several times. If you need high pay you need to look for offshore companies.
xterm wrote
unforgiven wrotecomputer engineer is more like an electrical engineer with good programming knowledge
computer science = pure programming and coding
The misinformed informing.
Misinformed ?? I really doubt it .... Check the courses of electrical and computer engineers in aub (i know more than 60+ who can confirm it) the first three years are the same for both ... It's the last year that's different....

Care to highlight the difference instead ??? All I saw you clarify where some points bur I never saw you answer the question
Don't study computer science in Lebanon Don't work in computer science in Lebanon It's bad career wise in Lebanon You'll reach a point where you're expecting a high salary that no one can give or has the work for. At that point, if you're too ambitious, you'll quit your job seeking better opportunities that will end up being abroad, or you may want to start something of your own? Welcome to the void! The lebanese software companies are just hopeless, and most if not all of the big software companies don't do software development in Lebanon. Think twice before choosing computer science in Lebanon. If I go back in time now I'd have chosen some pure/real engineering degree. Programming can be easily acquired, computer science is just 1 or 2 more courses.. analysis of algorithms / theory of computation...
unforgiven wroteMisinformed ?? I really doubt it .... Check the courses of electrical and computer engineers in aub (i know more than 60+ who can confirm it) the first three years are the same for both ... It's the last year that's different....

Care to highlight the difference instead ??? All I saw you clarify where some points bur I never saw you answer the question
I was harsh in my reply, without even explaining and for that i apologize.

I have no doubt and i do agree with the similarity between computer engineering and electrical engineering. What i forgot to emphasize (bold) on your post is the "Pure programming and coding". The sad fact that the curriculum in Lebanon shows this as being true. If you were to be totally correct, you should've added "in Lebanon".

The course variety in universities in lebanon is very small, universities emphasize their teachings in a way to get students up and running with programming as early as CSC101. The professor would enter the class and start describing a "program". How on earth is that a valid way of teaching a student what a computer scientist does?

The simple fact remains that the reason why moonchild and others mention that programming can be picked up easily, is totally due to what was mentioned above.

Computer Science is not about programming, it's about solving complex computational problems through means that can be interpreted by a device or machine. Funnily enough, these problems are most of the time direct applications of mathematical problems. Try to find yourself any language evangelist for any platform and see for yourself.

Now in terms of differences, based on what was requested in the original topic:

Let's be frank here, how many computer engineering students graduate from any college in lebanon and end up filling software development positions? If I'm not mistaken, an engineering degree can be acquired in around 5 years and a science degree in about 3. If you take two students that have enrolled in the same university at the same time as a computer science major and a computer engineering major and have graduated in their due time with the same skill level. The Computer Science student:

1- Has more computer science emphasis through having taken more computer science related courses. (Off the top of my head, a couple of math courses extra and a couple of more required and elective courses)
2- Has more experience due to two extra years he has spent working full time.

The sad fact remains, that an "engineering" degree in Lebanon means more to company than a science degree and this is incredibly unfair and stupid.

Is what i said always the case? No.

I could name dozens of engineers who can't find a single spot in an office simply due to being out-performed by scientists.
moonchild wroteDon't study computer science in Lebanon Don't work in computer science in Lebanon It's bad career wise in Lebanon You'll reach a point where you're expecting a high salary that no one can give or has the work for. At that point, if you're too ambitious, you'll quit your job seeking better opportunities that will end up being abroad, or you may want to start something of your own? Welcome to the void! The lebanese software companies are just hopeless, and most if not all of the big software companies don't do software development in Lebanon. Think twice before choosing computer science in Lebanon. If I go back in time now I'd have chosen some pure/real engineering degree.
I agree with everything up to this point.
I edited my post for it to become informed :)
"Engineering is the purposeful use of science.'' Steve Senturia

Cheers!
Kassem wroteNow in reply to the topic starter concerning how hard it is to go for a computer science degree. I am currently studying MIS (Management Information Systems) at the Lebanese University. MIS is basically the following formula:
MIS = (Computer Science) - (A few courses of Math & Physics) + (A whole lot of business courses)
The difference between MIS and Computer Sceince is much more than "A few courses of Math & Physics".

MIS curriculum is very different from Computer Science curriculum.

In addition to many Math (and maybe Physics) courses that they will not take, MIS students will not study: Computer Architecture, Theory of Computation, Programming Languages Design, Operating Systems Design, Compiler Construction, Artificial Intelligence... (and there are many more).