Georges
Flyingwizard wroteYorgi's lecturer had all the 'right' to say whatever lies he said about this part of the world and Yorgi, likewise, had all the right to object to what was said and stand up for what he believed was right. Whoever stopped him from going on and beat him up was very wrong and failed to acknowledge the right of the others, just like those that made a big deal out of a drawing and the following consequences.
We both know that "
They" are breaking the rules everywhere, they are always wrong and they are the liars.. I'd like to point to something important, "Terrorism". Why are we called terrorists ? Is it because we are really terrorists,
I'm not. Are You ?
If they call us terrorists, then we must be. If we call them terrorists, they simply kill us.
Is that what you are praising my friend. War ?
At the end, I'm sick of discussing this topic here. I won't be posting again. I just wanted you, by posting my first post, to realize that western civilizations are claiming the freedom of speech, while they are the very first to break every single human right.
I wish that this post was closed from the very beginning. I guess it's Samer's fault.
rolf
Yorgi wroteAt the end, I'm sick of discussing this topic here. I won't be posting again. I just wanted you, by posting my first post, to realize that western civilizations are claiming the freedom of speech, while they are the very first to break every single human right.
You are putting everything in the same basket... I would differentiate between USA, Germany, France, Japan...
mrmat
Didn't you guys go through something like this a while ago.
Excessive use of such thing "Freedom of Speech" leads to corruption and ignorance. I will recall the following again, if someone insulted me, my mother etc.... i will do whatever i can to protect somthing called dignity which we as lebanese care about a lot. I will not sit my ass down and wait for something called "law", which i know will do me nothing.
iam against violence, but the man done that on purpose just to piss some people off. No one should have the right to insult any race or belief. And as i said above, if everyone relied on the Freedom of Speech and some bulllshit human rights, it will only lead to corruption, and thats whats happening in a lot of places.
@pikatore:Your title needs a bit of correction, it should have said why are some people like this?. As others have mentioned, other people have used violence as a last resort to defend their dignity and express their feelings.
Why expressing your feelings with violence?
Because a lot of shitasses don't care about how you feel.
Although i don't feel like i included any insults in my post,please don't take anything i said personally.
Kassem
@ rolf: I said I won't get into the discussion of values here because it's off-topic. But I simply pointed that out (about girls carrying anti-pregnancy pills in their back-pack) as an example! I know our values need some re-consideration, I know that we've came out of a 15 year civil war, I know that most Lebanese people show off... trust me I know all that crap. On the other hand, I know that the Western countries have some values I wish we had here, but they also have their own problems too. Look at their societies, they're a mess! The point is, they shouldn't feel superior to us, and we shouldn't either. We are all equal human beings, we all have our rights and duties. But when someone like that lecturer calls us "terrorists" or "ignorants" or whatever, isn't he assuming that he is better and superior to us? That was my point and that's it. Lebanon is still way behind civilized countries, no one can disregard this fact, but that's another discussion for another thread.
battikh
The main problem here is a common thing: ignorant people with too much self-esteem, people who don't know much, but yet, for some weird reason, believe that whatever little they know is all that there is to know, which leads to very wrong conclusions.
1st thing, such behaviors are absolutely wrong, but they don't happen BECAUSE of islam, they happen because of extremisn and fanatism, islam here is irrelevant.
It's extremism that leads to such behavior, not a specific religion. It's what created things like Hitler in Germany, KKK in USA, ... it's extremism.
It's weird that people who live in lebanon/are lebanese ask for examples of similar behaviors from other religions. As if we didn't go throug a 20 years of civil war because of religious extremism, as if there were no "7aweijez 3al tezekra", if you're muslim you get arrested/killed/tortured/...
As if this extremist mentality is still not available in Lebanon, among all religions. Just as you can't go to the beirut suburbs and mock hassan nassrallah/mohamed/... without getting beaten up, you can't go to saifi/sassine/zgharta/... mocking jesus or sleiman franjieh or whoever without getting beaten up.
As for doing such things just because of a picture/caricature/... can YOU publish a caricature mocking jesus/mohammed in a Lebanese newspaper? If you do, what would happen? This applies on both religions, not because of the religion itself, but because of extremism and fanatism.
In europe, don't similar things happen for things as stupid as football? Hooligans anyone?
Go to a football match in munich and mock a bayern player, lets see if you'll have time to reach the hospital...
It's fanatism, not religion, now get over it and stop being "racist" and spreading hatred based on ignorance.
rolf
@Kassem yep nobody can really claim superiority without contradicting himself. I think there are good and bad in everything too.
I don't think Arabs are terrorist, and don't think pikatore has the same thoughts. The people who think this way are the intellectual scum of the Western civilization. There may be lots of them, but thankfully they are not an absolute majority and they don't represent nor define that civilization.
It is also not necessary that people assume absolute superiority when the talk about economics, development... they may just imply superiority in some aspects and want the rest of the world to share it.
nablaux
I have been reading that thread and I felt I really need to say something.
First of all pikatore haven't said anything wrong in principal.
I have to say pikatore you are right in the sense that such behavior is unacceptable. Now that, really is irrelevant to which group, religion, sect, X one belong to.
As for freedom now there I have a problem. My problem resides in setting double standards. To enforce freedom and law one need to be Just and Fair. (Just a small example, the prohibition of wearing the veil in France at schools, the prohibition of building mosques in Switzerland, etc... Even though people have voted for these laws, it is still no ones right to tell me how to dress nor what to do in a place I own). Take this quality away (fairness) and one becomes a dictator. I have been residing in different European countries for some time now and I have to say legal issues are difficult for a middle eastern in general and a Muslim in particular. But that is a bit off-subject.
What I wanted to point out is the tagging of people and the spread of lies about communities and believers in a certain faith (in this case Islam) does push followers to act irrationally. (I mean seriously how come there are more extremists now than ever?.) Especially if these lies affect a person in his/her daily life. There are a certain new definitions being introduced into societies. For example, nowadays the word Terrorist or Terrorism has lost its meaning. It became strongly correlated with Islam and Muslims. So basically being a Muslim makes you a terrorist by DEFINITION. And that is a seriously big error. It is the same error of saying all westerners are Infidels or Stupid or closed or anything, X.
Basically it is the labeling that is provoking people.
Now if this labeling was just a word with no actual application on the ground, probably people wont react. But, because such a trend is growing so fast and it is actually modifying government policies, some people find it wise to react. There are two kinds of reactions: One is the most basic approach like the one we see in that video and there are many other examples to that. Two is actually try to proof that these labels are incorrect, and since one cannot change the policies of governments then at least if you change the opinions of people Governed, then Maybe the policies of the governments might change (Basically this is just saying increase awareness and by that decrease hatered).
In my opinion, choosing of the first reaction comes out of despair and the choice of the second comes out of richness of thoughts and belief. However I am in no position to evaluate or judge any of them, since depending on the circumstances fighting as well might be a better choice.
Another example of changing the meaning of words is Anti-Semite. I mean what the hell, I am a Semite as well. Give me a break here. But no, these days only the Jews are Semites. Now that is actually taking away my own identity. OK this is in a way normal for Israelis to do right? They steal a land and claim it is theirs and because of a HUGE complex of inferiority they stole from us the right of being semites as well, can you imagine. Now I get furious (though never hit anyone yet) if i am called an anti-semite.
A small comment on this thread: I do not think such a community should react in such a way to any question. For God Sake people you are Engineers and Computer Scientists. The first thing that you should be able to do is to get a statement, understand it , find the flaws, the problems causing these flaws and then find a solution to these problems. It is very simple. I have read many angry posts here with pure reactions (no thoughts), no sequence, no argument, nothing.
I agree my post in not ideal I do drift a lot usually from subjects and my thoughts get disconnected at times this is why I am a slow person in writing and developing ideas. But in anycase I felt the urge to write something that is as close as it can be to an argument, without jumping to conclusions and making a million prejudices in a second. I mean that is exactly what is happening to us, middle eastern in the west, we are faced by a HUGE amount of prejudices and we disagree with this behavior. But then, HOW CAN WE ALLOW OURSELVES TO ACT IN THE SAME WAY?
May you all succeed in all your endeavours
kareem_nasser
It is nice that you said that you are a Semitic becasue Spain was conquered by Arabs a long time ago.
From all this thread i think that i was right when i deleted the Religion part on
Lebanese Wikipedia
nablaux
kareem_nasser wroteIt is nice that you said that you are a Semitic becasue Spain was conquered by Arabs a long time ago.
Again with prejudices and assumptions: I am Lebanese
kareem_nasser
But i wasn't making any prejudices or Assumptions.
nablaux
kareem_nasser wroteBut i wasn't making any prejudices or Assumptions.
Then I hope you excuse me. I probably didnt understand the connection of semitic, Spain and the post (I still dont but ok).
invalid-user-43
Quality thread, IMHO.
kareem_nasser
nablaux wrotekareem_nasser wroteBut i wasn't making any prejudices or Assumptions.
Then I hope you excuse me. I probably didnt understand the connection of semitic, Spain and the post (I still dont but ok).
simple: Arabs are semitic and you are becasue of what i said earlier so what i meant is that in the end we are all relatives by humanity.
Ayman
After all the conflicts that may arise in this world we will all be the same equal humans and people living on the same planet. I wonder if some day(I hope I would be living by that time) my dream would come true where the whole world can become one regardless of nationality, religion, or private groups. One day where when someone looks in my ID for my nationality he/she would read: Planet Earth , and when he/she tries to find religion, it is not listed there.
elchebib
AymanFarhat wroteAfter all the conflicts that may arise in this world we will all be the same equal humans and people living on the same planet. I wonder if some day(I hope I would be living by that time) my dream would come true where the whole world can become one regardless of nationality, religion, or private groups. One day where when someone looks in my ID for my nationality he/she would read: Planet Earth , and when he/she tries to find religion, it is not listed there.
Thumbs up for this idea....
A bit too idealistic but I wish that too :D
samer
Time-bomb exploded.
