J4D
@ battikh we are not criticizing any one at least in my proposal :) so are yo in or not ?
hussam
battikh
jadberro wrote@ battikh we are not criticizing any one at least in my proposal :) so are yo in or not ?
i don't live in lebanon, so even if i wanted to be in, i couldn't.
J4D
hussam !! ( khalsoone min ossit bassile , im not talking about him but about the one who will come next so we can follow up on the issue from the start !!! ) battikh its ok :)
invalid-user-43
Whatever Minister that will come, whether from one team or the other, won't be able to do shit about the internet.
There will always be Ogero holding Lebanese internet by the balls, and no one can touch Ogero because it belongs to the Hariris.
If an anti-Hariri (hence, Ogero) minister couldn't do shit about anything (he actually made things worse), don't expect a pro-Hariri minister to pick a fight with Ogero. Even a technocrat minister won't be able to do shit about Ogero.
The only way for this to be fixed is the World Bank, and affiliated financial institutions to FORCE a regulation of certain sectors, and obliterate monopolies (with Ogero being on top of them) ... or Hariri going bankrupt.
invalid-user-43
It's sad that every Internet discussion in Leb will turn political, however, this is only due to the nature of the problem, which is political.
It's not an ISP problem, it's a ministry problem, and when we want to talk about ministry problems, there's no avoiding to a political discussion.
hussam
Regarding Hariri, leaders of big political parties don't really make a difference because they always put their own people in positions of authority. It is the particular minister's attitude that makes the difference so this is just a game of luck. The only time it makes a difference is when a particular minister is used as a publicity stunt for his party like when Bassil used to go on LBC and promise to bring the holy grail of teh internetz to Lebanon.
As I said before, the ONLY problem is people not caring that standards are very low.
J4D
guyssssss be optimistic and dont destroy this ideaaaa ! :mad:
teodorgeorgiev
battikh wroteusually in civilized and developed countries, when people don't get what they want, they go to the streets.
making a sit-in in front of the telecom ministry with some banners would get some attention from media and all. once it gets mediatised, minsters will feel the heat, and will even work harder to solve it to look like the heroes.
the main problem with internet s that people NEVER officially complained about it. why would the government consider it a priority if no one complains about it?
and again, for the few in here who are saying that bassil doesn't know what to change to make things better and that they have to tell him what to do (i wonder if they watch the news and speak objectively based on facts or just blindly say unbased things to people they are politically opposed to, coz as good lebanese, they HAVE to criticize ANYONE who is not with their side WHATEVER they do or say or under whatever circumstances), basil exactly said what were the changes needed to improve things, things that have been discussed in lebgeeks, ... problems don't reside ONLY in the telecom ministry, but also at the finance ministry and with the prime minister.
Battikh stuck his d*** into the right hole, guys. Read it again - if you do not complain, no one will ever bother. You know that the good donkey carries two people on its back!
Indeed, the entire blame is not on Bassil. Agree as well. Marwan Hamadeh did also nothing (he wasn't from FPM if my memory serves me
right).
Indeed, we DO NOT CARE whose fault is this. Either it is solved, or all government top-asses involved in this get out of their chairs.
J4D
ok then lets complain :) teo are you in ? also nuclearcat ? you are the experts in this issue after all ?
Kareem
it's funny ask some not-Lebanese people for support . We should fight for our rights...
J4D
heheh ok kareem are you in ?
invalid-user-43
hussam wroteRegarding Hariri, leaders of big political parties don't really make a difference because they always put their own people in positions of authority. It is the particular minister's attitude that makes the difference so this is just a game of luck. The only time it makes a difference is when a particular minister is used as a publicity stunt for his party like when Bassil used to go on LBC and promise to bring the holy grail of teh internetz to Lebanon.
As I said before, the ONLY problem is people not caring that standards are very low.
I don't disagree with you, but what I am saying is that Ogero's monopoly, the main cause for the internet situation in Lebanon, isn't likely to go anytime soon, especially that Ogero has both strong political and financial backing.
Anyways, I'm all the way with "the idea", and I am willing to join you folks in meeting the next minister.
J4D
great we are 3 now :) we need more :D
Aly
I really haven't seen any peaceful / non-peaceful Lebanese manifestation (Mozahara) that payed off even if there was a million human in it, it can go either ways :
1- they go in front of the ministry with banners for a couple of hours and go home (and nothing will happen).
2-They can make a riot and get beaten by the army or have a cold shower from the firefighters water hose and yet (and nothing will happen).
3- Someone might die and get shot in the riot and still no one will care (and nothing will happen).
I personally as soon as I finish my studies I am seriously planning to leave the country (even though I dislike this fact), the western have reached the moon, peed on the moon, shitted on the moon, they installed WiFi on the moon, and we are still talking about improving the internet in here, as much as I like to see internet improved in Lebanon I don't see a real chance of improvement anytime soon.
Kareem
yeah I agree with Aly, situation is hopeless.. I am sorry
battikh
Aly, when did lebanese do a manifestation to gain more civic rights? the only times it happens it was to show their blind support to the warlord they worship.
lebanese never moved for their rights. enno imagine that in a country like lebanon, with all it's diversity, a christian lebanese can't marry a muslim lebanese. it's so damn wrong on so many levels, and affects the life of people in so many ways. it actually affects the whole society. and did anyone make serious moves for this in the history of lebanon? for such a basic thing, a thing that affects our lives much more than faster internet, no one moves. but when it's about doing a manifestation just "nkeyeh" bi the other side, everyone shows up, misses work, misses uni, closes schools, ...
- "oooh we're 1 million, in your faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace"
- " naaaanaaanaaaa naaaaaaaaaa, we're 1 million +1"
that's what lebanese manifestations are all about. so why would there be change if they were never to ask for basic rights? it has always been just to show blind support to some group and nkeyeh bil teineh, never to ask for rights.
teodorgeorgiev
Guys,
1. It would not be a riot, as it could really lead to someone being shot dead. which would have unstoppable and devastating consequences.
2. Yes, of course I am in. I gave ideas, protested, suggested, it would be shame to hide between your backs or stay at home. So, count me in.
3. Aly, running away is not a solution. If the "western" have been doing like you, where would you go now?
4. Aly, if we do the Mozahara in a smart way, not just impulsive, it will pay off. We will ask for international assistance, making noise...
at the end those idiots above will say: 'khalas.... basita, give those idiots below this fucking Internet and let them shut up. We have got
headache from all this noise"
5. Imagine in BBC and CNN the news: "Lebanese protesting against the awful Internet situation in Lebanon, got shot with water cannons..."
The government will really have hard time with cleaning up its reputation. New loans, ya3ne... bad reputation - no loans.
We might even ask the ambassadors of some civilised and friendly towards Lebanon countries for attention and back up.
6. TRA + MPT + Ogero, in the order named are the ones who put "brakes" on the Internet development of Lebanon
7. Protesting on the street is a really desperate and last-escape way.
Lets start with something more logical:
Spreading the news between people in Lebanon, making noise. We need to explain to as many people as possible. Lets start with the
universities (no need to explain "why?"). Lets explain to as many people as possible the situation. So they would KNOW from now on
and would not be that susceptible to lies. They should be educated... so to say.
It is enough as a start that more and more people would know:
1. WHAT EXACTLY HAS TO BE DONE TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION?
2. HOW MUCH WOULD IT COST?
3. HOW MUCH TIME WOULD IT TAKE?
Then, when they know the answer of these questions, they would know better what has not been done, who is to blame for what and etc...
If only people could understand that improving the Internet situation in Lebanon is:
1. NOT THAT COMPLICATED AS *THEY* SAY
2. NOT THAT TIME CONSUMING/SLOW AS *THEY* SAY
3. NOT THAT COSTLY AS *THEY* SAY
... well, the situation would be completely different.
So, what do we say?
Starting with pamfletes around the universities, making public meetings and events to explain all the details?
I would sponsor some 1000 pamfletes and more from my pocket.
Kareem
Btw, just a question of out ignorance... What is so hard about purchasing more bandwidth. I think it would make them more money. What are the real obstacles ? I dont believe it is a financial one. Telecom sector in Lebanon has a critical situation. How much money such a project would cost ?
Xsever
To summarize on teo's post (thank you very much for taking time to write all that down), the first thing we need to do is SPREAD THE WORD.
We need to get the support of not only technically advanced people, but also people who use the internet and are satisfied with the little they have.
So, our first milestone would be getting as much on-the-ground support as we can. Just talk about this issue with everyone you know, get feedback from them, and then we will have plenty of ideas to focus on next.
We have the knowledge and the leadership. We just need to put it together in an effective way.
