feeding live video across DSL in Lebanon

amateurgeek

Hi everyone,

I am a journalist moving to Beirut in May. Part of my job will be to file live reports from my balcony through my HD cam hooked up to my laptop, through SKYPE to TV news shows in the US and UK.

My worry is, will Lebanon's DSL support this? Will the sound and video carry fine. How reliable is the DSL strength? And how much am I going to have to pay for the best kind of connection? WHo should I go to for the service...

sorry for all the silly questions!!

d

rolf

Hi!

To answer your question... Fast internet is expensive here, and reliability mostly depends on the ISP.
Sodetel have HDSL (2mbits) which, in theory is pretty good for sending video, but it costs $200 a month.
I dont know how reliable it is.

Other ISPs may offer similar speeds, but you will have to contact their sales department and arrange something. They call it business ADSL or corporate ADSL. But its not gonna be cheaper for these speeds.

Please Enquire with the networks youre broadcasting to about the recommended bandwidth.

Internet here is normally reliable for daily use, but you may have downtime sometimes. If youre broadcasting live for a big network... then better have a backup.
As far as I know, OGEROs connection is the most reliable.
There are other members here, especially people who work in the internet sector who may give you more info.

If you want a serious connection for sending live video, Id recommend you get a 2mbps connection from ogero, then a wireless connection from VISP as backup. But its gonna be expensive, compared to developed countries.

Major DSL ISPs in lebanon are (afaik)

www.ogero.gov.lb
www.idm.net.lb
www.visp.net.lb ( Im not sure they offer DSL but they can offer smth else maybe )
www.terra.net.lb
www.sodetel.net.lb
www.thisiscyberia.com ( theyre still in the business, right? )

You should also check if DSL is available in your area.

Hope youll have a good time in lebanon.

proners

Long Answer: Depends on the quality of the video you're sending so...
Short Answer: No
Even with having the best connection available HDSL(which is your only choice), you won't be able to do so, I stopped reading when you said HD and laughed, it's impossible, not even in the next 20 years :p, you may be able to transmit Standard defintion feeds at best, or sub-SD normally I'd guess.
And well we haven't mentionned yet the cost, 200 bucks for 8gigs of usage, i am sure you'll have some wtf moments when you see the bills in the future :p.
As for the provider to choose, I'd go only with Ogero, the most reliable ISP of all, well they have the monopoly :p.. As for VISP I don't recommend it at all for your case since their upload speeds are puny, and their network suffer horrible packet losses, but you may want to have it for unlimited internet surfing(they don't have a usage cap like other providers but they have a Fair Usage Policy, which isn't detailed at all :p).
so good luck and welcome to lebanon lol

nuclearcat

proners - stop lying please. VISP network is different. Each account is different. All depends what kind of connection you own and how much you pay.

If you buy account over some shitty cable network, who built his access network on Z-Com chinese wireless and sure have packetloss - it is your choice. Additionally such resellers is greedy, and installing cheapest option for backhaul link, and dont want to pay for more powerful solution.
If you use end-user account and expect from it corporate grade quality - you are wrong.

At same time VISP provided capacity for journalists of some large european TV channels at war time, for example, to upload video feeds.
But, about live streaming, about HD cam - first of all it is not professional to provide feeds over Skype. Second HD video, even 720p is 19.7 Mbit/s. If you gonna stream out for business purproses(means with good quality) this from lebanon, it would cost you around $24000 / month in best case.
Third, and most important - i am not sure in details, it is forbidden to stream live video from cam on streets, if you dont have TV company license. It is related to security situation in Lebanon.

amateurgeek

Thanks for your info guys

I should have been clearer. I will have an HD cam but I won;t need to transmit HD... I will be doing broadband shots, Standard Definition is fine...

but $24000 / month = WTF?

amateurgeek

One more thing guys

On top of live video feeds, I will be producing video packages and uploading them to an FTP server. each package will be 1 -2 GB.... from what I can see, data uploads are capped in Lebanon. this is gonna cost me a fortune, right?

nuclearcat

amateurgeek - prices in Bulgaria, for example, for expensive backbone there and cheapest in Lebanon differ around 80 times. What you expect?

And by the way situation not gonna change in good side soon. Right now manufactureres of "fiber" equipment is going first time to wrong way. It is opinion of people who buy equipment from them. As result internet connection(future upgrades) will be more expensive in near future for backbone ISP's.
Technology needs boost. Technology reached it limit.
CPU's cannot be boosted more than 4 Ghz. They go multi-core design, which is not clear true way to improve technology.
Fiber technology will require 4 wavelength for 100G transfer, while everybody needs 1 wavelength.

nuclearcat

amateurgeek wroteOne more thing guys

On top of live video feeds, I will be producing video packages and uploading them to an FTP server. each package will be 1 -2 GB.... from what I can see, data uploads are capped in Lebanon. this is gonna cost me a fortune, right?

Well, if you gonna do it at night, i can provide option for that easily. At night i have plenty of bandwidth free.

Only thing matter - your location. In lebanon it is not easy to build high-speed link to any location.

rolf

amateurgeek i wrote these assuming that the internet budget was covered by the company, in which case I proposed what in my opinion is the best possible solution for LIVE video, HDSL from ogero with backup from VISP. That would be a perfect setup, in fact the best possible setup IMHO for sending the best quality live video without spending the price of a new car every month. It should cost about 400 dollars a month (if you dont go over quota).

If the price is to be paid from your pocket, then you can still settle with something cheaper (under $100) but the image will somehow be blurred and choppy. Alternatively you can send a good quality but not in live. I dont know what your requirements are.

I have a 256K connection, which should roughly cost $50 a month from ogero (double that for wireless backup). I have skype and can show you what video will look like over that connection.

@proners - Im sure VISP can find a good custom solution for these needs. They are normally reliable, but sometimes they go down for a while. It can be fixed real quick if you shout a bit at support or contact someone important... as long as you have a business account with them. :)
I think the packet you are talking about comes from your reseller... but i cant know for sure.
I said VISP as backup because they provide wireless connections. I wouldnt recomment a DSL backup because you will have the phone office as central point of failure. Its better to use 2 different paths.

nuclearcat

VISP gonna go DSL soon too. :-P

rolf

good to hear...

teodorgeorgiev

1. HDSL is the best choice, but still it is 2Mbps and it operates at closer ranges (max 3km) than ADSL.

2. ADSL is asynchronous. Since you need upload, it won't work for you. The max upload an ADSL link can handle is 1Mbps. And even Ogero
won't give you that much upload. So, not only Lebanon DSL won't support it --> ANY DSL won't either.

3. DSL sux at all. Here in Bulgaria it is used only in rural places (small towns where the regular ISPs are not really interested to invest in fiber and so on). The main strategy here is fiber to the buildings, a switch in the basement and an UTP from this switch to the apartments.

4. Proners, defend your words (prove that there is packet loss in VISP network, not a reseller network) or you are gonna make me a <snip> soon. Either show me a direct link between a customer and VISP POP or open your mouth widely.
<snip>

Amateurgeek, kindly write an article on how the Lebanese "government" handles the telecom/internet situation in the country.
They are like a dog sitting over the straw - nor it eats the straw by itself, neither it allows some other animal to eat from it.

teodorgeorgiev

Indeed, VISP was the first company that got a DSLAM and made an ADSL (an ADSL2+ too) link. I can prove it in several ways (customs import papers, customer installation contracts and so on).

amateurgeek

SO from summarize, HDSL from Ogero will be the best i can get in lebanon and it will cost 200$ a month?

rolf

It supposed to be good.

I have a friend whos going to install HDSL at his office from Sodetel. He gets 8GB up and 8GB down, and every additional GB is billed $10. Ill try to know what performance he gets next month once its running. I dont know anyone who has an HDSL connection from Ogero.

You also might want to contact VISP for the FTP upload, if you dont want to pay 10 dollars for every extra gig.

good luck

teodorgeorgiev

Be prepared as well that you should usually wait not less than two weeks for the installation of an HDSL line. And if your location is more than 2-3km from the nearest phone exchange, then it will take more time and become more expensiver - an external repeater has to be installed as well and the telco technicians will curse a lot.

proners

nuclearcat wroteproners - stop lying please.

Hmmm sorry nuc, i didn't mean to LIE :p, i only offered my feedback for a NORMAL consumer, but I am sure that VISP can make a deal with any capable company to provide one of the best services in the country, but amateurgeek didn't seem like he's covered(financially) for this matter by a company, because if he was, he would have contacted your company and other ISPs directly to strike the best deal possible, hence i provided my feedback...

teodorgeorgiev wroteProners, defend your words (prove that there is packet loss in VISP network, not a reseller network) or you are gonna make me a <snip> soon. Either show me a direct link between a customer and VISP POP or open your mouth widely.

[[Sure i can provide pathpings that shows packet loss on the last two hops before packets go to the off-shore networks, so the last two hops couldn't belong to the reseller because that would mean that he's connected directly to the off-shore networks :O, could he? :p... but i can't provide pathpings from a direct line...]]
update: scratch that [[paragraph]], after further investigation, i found that my conclusions were at best inconclusive lol :p so i am opening a topic(http://www.lebgeeks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=21023#p21023) to discuss them but my point for puny upload speeds still stand for the ADVERTISED(only) commercial packages which i am basing my opinion on.

So please stop the attacks, i provided my feedback based on that the service is being provided for a normal consumer... you can show where i am wrong... NO it's your moral duty to correct me where i am wrong... But i guess lebanese can't do that without some showing some anger :p... [update: see i didn't even stand by my sayings when i had reasonable doubt about my conclusions]

amateurgeek wroteOn top of live video feeds, I will be producing video packages and uploading them to an FTP server. each package will be 1 -2 GB

Hmm interesting you didn't mention this the first time...

amateurgeek wroteSO from summarize, HDSL from Ogero will be the best i can get in lebanon and it will cost 200$ a month?

Basically, yes, but i think that you must make estimations of your monthly consumption and calculate how much it's going to cost you for HDSL from Ogero(so choose what type of feed you're going to use from right now). It's going to cost you 200 bucks for the service and the first Eight Gigs of usage, and 10 bucks for any additional gig(210$ for 9 gigs for example), u must make your calculations based on upload because that's where your 'heavy duty' usage is going to be. Then after making those calculations, you can decide if it's the best for you or not. Like if it's going to cost you 2000 bucks per month, maybe you're better off negotiating a deal with VISP, but if your calculations show that it's going to be more like 500 bucks, i think Ogero is the best choice unless another ISP can top that which i doubt. Anyway try contacting several ISPs after making your calculations and see what you can come up with. On a side note, I won't vouch for any ISP :p.

teodorgeorgiev wroteAmateurgeek, kindly write an article on how the Lebanese "government" handles the telecom/internet situation in the country.
They are like a dog sitting over the straw - nor it eats the straw by itself, neither it allows some other animal to eat from it

please do so lol...