Removable Storage

mir

once upon a time there was 1.5 MB Floppy Disks
reje3 sar fi tatawor bl removable storage... CDs... DVDs .. USBs starting from 128 till the 16 GB (more than my ex-hdd [sounds like ex-bf]

and there has never been enough REMOVABLE disk space (i am talking only about the removable storage )

but with 16 GB usb ... i am too tempted to create a volatile computing environement and carry it around ( vmware would be the backbone in that env.)

would u recommend that ?
what are your thoughts on the USB write/Read Spead ?
what are your thoughts on reliability ? ( anyone has the average "age" of USBs, can anyone provide stats from real life experiences ? )

i would of course want to create image of usb1 on usb2
but write speed is 10 MB/sec...do the math for 16 GB that would be a relatively big amount of time ? no ?

and

how would you compare the External HDDs with the USB
what are the tech differences in the technologies used (feel free to speak chinese - elaborate all the tech details u know )
how are the hdds that need electricity different from the ones that don't need electricity ?

how about the difference between the hdd and the usb (except the amount of storage, that means in terms of reliability.. speed. performance ...)

what are your recommended brands and how do you see things are goin to evolve ?

wouldn't mind if you also share the quality/price values

thanks

rolf

Currently the speed of the USB is not optimal... it is possible... but it is faster to use a hd.
It is a nice idea for the future though, imagine taking with you just a flash drive, and plugging it into workstations in cafes, restaurants, airports, etc... interesting idea

karim-soubra

so many things to talk about so little time
i feel like i am all over the space of external storage
please focus focus
can't must go to sleep
ps: you forgot about sshdd

mir

rolf:

It is a nice idea for the future though, imagine taking with you just a flash drive, and plugging it into workstations in cafes, restaurants, airports, etc... interesting idea

oh.. well it is not that much futuristic idea.... u can do that using the usb hdd... but i guess for usb.. it has to wait a bit :)

loool karim
must go to sleep.. must go to sleep... always say that to myself..so little time indeed
well.. feel free to answer a question at a time when u get some free time
the most important question.. is how does hdd work.. vs how does usb work
access methods and all those tech details
i think that would explain the key differences

nuclearcat

I have around 200 USB flashes running over Lebanon. I did my own mini-Linux to run from them...
As soon as u buy from reliable sources (let's say Virgin), u are secure.
As soon as u buy cheapest from people who dont know well what they sell - you can loose your data anytime.
Some manufacturers give lifetime warranty, and actually lifespan of _GOOD_ flashes - 3-4 years(and even more) if you even boot&run Windows on them 5-6 hours per day, it depends on "wearing" system and flash chip.

mir

I did my own mini-Linux to run from them..

is Your Mini-Linux Available for Download ?
It is Best Suited for what ?

well.. i think for the moment being , for best performance and more storage better go for an external hdd (this is what i am gonna do )
much more reliable
and i will set up a usb with vmware and files also and do some comparing

any special brands you recommend nuc ?
and guys what are your "reliable" sources for hdd ?

karim..what about sshdd (stands for secure hdd ? )

nuclearcat

This linux is for internal usage for VISP needs... it is not user-oriented. It is running proxies, NAS servers and etc.

Any flash in the Virgin megastore i think can be reliable, plus if u keep check u can come and ask for warranty if it fails recently. But after my deep checks of two 8GB flashes - they looks like reliable. I cannot call any brand, cause most known Transcend, Kingston and etc, there is a lot of fake products from garbage producing country - China.
The real price of 8GB in lebanon - ~70-100$. Something cheaper have hidden drawbacks (cheap flash, weak wearing technology and even fake advertised capacity).

mir

well nuc
couple of friends think that virgin overprice sometimes for nothing ( anyone agrees / disagrees ?, would like to hear the geeky opinions )

but i am gonna be a good girl.. and hear your advice and purchase from virgin

i guess i will get a 250 GB toshiba external hdd

nuclearcat

if u know any other reliable place, that buy from ORIGINAL sources - buy there
But their "overprice" is mostly because it is original, and not "copy, made in China".

For example i buy Sandisk Cruiser Micro 8GB $77 (but they make discount, because they was not able to sell it, it was 85, i found second sticker under top price sticker).
on website of Sandisk it is $79.9

http://www.sandisk.com/products/catalog(1168)-sandisk_cruzer_micro_usb_flash_drive.aspx
I check ALL inside - it shows that it is original Sandisk (unique serial number, all manuals, RFID and other tag, perfect quality of printing, and etc).

So it is not overpriced probably, just other places selling garbage. But i am not sure about all products.

mir

Thanks Nuc so much for the feedback !
and i guess they respect the 3 years warranty.

and i guess with the Data.. specially some stuff are valuable.. better buy good quality stuff for ease of mind and to avoid corruption and save time

this topic was meant to discuss the removable storage.. how it works.. difference and such...problems with different types of devices and such
so would appreciate anyone with thoughts on that

nuclearcat

About warranty - better to ask before buying. Usually it is 1 year in lebanon, i think enough for USB flash.

samer

Nuc, pcandparts are offering (as part of their weekly offers) this :

Kingston DTI/4GB USB 2.0 Flash drive 4GB for $20.00 [link]

Do you think it's reliable?

nuclearcat

Samer, you must check it by yourself if it is original.

You can contact also Kingston support by e-mail and ask for help, how to find out if flash original or not.
http://www.overclockers.com.au/wiki/Fake_Memory_Cards
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/321236
You can search also for similar websites

nuclearcat

Btw same valid for cellular phones, laptops and etc.
Chinese people is evil. This, sorry, f*ckers trying to rob you each second... it is my own experience after visiting china.
You think you are getting a much more cheap thing, with a bit lower quality, but in fact you are getting garbage, and paying for it money.
Made in China for me now = Garbage Made from garbage. :-D

BashLogic

Hmm
im having a dejavu on the subject

the usb thou in theory fast wont work as efficiently as a local disk. the plain reason is that:
- the USB protocol functions in a similar way to ethernet and in some cases even worse, hence it is very bound
to broadcast collisions on transmissions which slows it down.
- due to the collision issue, usb functions better with single large disk reads/writes instead of plenty small read/write I/O
that is why if you are writing a document and saving directly to the usb, you will notice that it takes more time than to a disk (ofcourse the disk has better performance but the point is that the usb sucks with small IO)
- there are several usb-linux distros out there: http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ or knoppix http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/knoppix-linux-usb,1293.html (what would i do without knoppix, its a life saver!
- as was mentioned, stick with brands, proper usb sticks can handle up to 10k read/write I/O before they start to ware out so they are not everlasting!

i had a friend who thought he was doing other friends a great favor by buying 2gb sticks from china at a cheap price. he invested his sallary on them thinking he would make a small profit on it, he then wondered why they wouldnt work. windows recognized them as 2gb but he couldnt write anything beyond 128mb. i got a sample and tested it, after taking it apart, i noticed that it was cross welded to appear as 2gb while in fact it was a 128mb chip! go figure!

good luck with your project.
BL

PS: Hello to the rest!

mir wroteonce upon a time there was 1.5 MB Floppy Disks
reje3 sar fi tatawor bl removable storage... CDs... DVDs .. USBs starting from 128 till the 16 GB (more than my ex-hdd [sounds like ex-bf]

and there has never been enough REMOVABLE disk space (i am talking only about the removable storage )

but with 16 GB usb ... i am too tempted to create a volatile computing environement and carry it around ( vmware would be the backbone in that env.)

would u recommend that ?
what are your thoughts on the USB write/Read Spead ?
what are your thoughts on reliability ? ( anyone has the average "age" of USBs, can anyone provide stats from real life experiences ? )

i would of course want to create image of usb1 on usb2
but write speed is 10 MB/sec...do the math for 16 GB that would be a relatively big amount of time ? no ?

and

how would you compare the External HDDs with the USB
what are the tech differences in the technologies used (feel free to speak chinese - elaborate all the tech details u know )
how are the hdds that need electricity different from the ones that don't need electricity ?

how about the difference between the hdd and the usb (except the amount of storage, that means in terms of reliability.. speed. performance ...)

what are your recommended brands and how do you see things are goin to evolve ?

wouldn't mind if you also share the quality/price values

thanks

mir

BashLogic :D, zi BashLogic, I see this is the number 1 post , so a warm welcome

Thanks for your feedback

well.. i am still not technologically satisfied about my knowledge on "Storage" and storage techonlogies
I am googling that subject regulary
I am Reading different stuff FROM the history of Storage TO some Nice Ways of Storing Data using "DNA" - DNA Computers - (after all, it is all computing, no? and super interesting :D ) , there is also for example "Cloud Storage" , and yes i did re-read that article about Juggling with packets

The Storage Subject is Really Endless... and Removable Storage is a Really Exciting topic to keep an eye on
as for hdd vs usb... for performance and reliability... the usb is still behind... wouldn't use that for my critical data... i hope some changes are on the way
besides the hdd are slim, so it is not a big deal anymore to carry couple of external hdd :D
it all depends on the case scenario, Somehow , it is all a compromise between portability/reliability/speed/price ....

BashLogic

mir wroteBashLogic :D, zi BashLogic, I see this is the number 1 post , so a warm welcome

Thanks for your feedback

well.. i am still not technologically satisfied about my knowledge on "Storage" and storage techonlogies
I am googling that subject regulary

#storage today no longer abides to the old orthodox interpretation of being physical storage disk, as a storage it can be any device, media or a combination. the cloud storage isnt really an invention, its only rebranding and repackaging what has been out there for a while. years ago some researchers theorized and experimented on storing data in live network, hence the data never settles in one place at any time, its all the time bits traversing across networks, hence another form of storage. time will tell whether a practical implimentation will be established.

I am Reading different stuff FROM the history of Storage TO some Nice Ways of Storing Data using "DNA" - DNA Computers - (after all, it is all computing, no? and super interesting :D ) , there is also for example "Cloud Storage" , and yes i did re-read that article about Juggling with packets

# the dna thingie is nice but a step far from where we are today and what we need today, on the long run, we will be going thru the quantum phase first before that. and most propably we will see that chemical and biological computing could remain for computational data processing methodologies instead of storage methodologies. you have to remember its not always about how much info can be squezed in but also having it remain reliable and secure under dier circumstances. for example many right now are talking about the flash drives coming to the market and becoming streamlined, that is nice and that is progress but people are forgetting that there are challenges with flash drives as well. reliability and endurability for one thing. i wouldnt use a flash drive unless its raided or the drive shell is very well shielded from magnetic interference. even today every once in a while we get unexplainable errors and unbredictable behaviors on systems and against all sensible logic we cant deduce the cause always ending up ironically deducing that it was caused by a solar flare or some cosmic ray which very well could be true as well.

The Storage Subject is Really Endless... and Removable Storage is a Really Exciting topic to keep an eye on
as for hdd vs usb... for performance and reliability... the usb is still behind... wouldn't use that for my critical data... i hope some changes are on the way
besides the hdd are slim, so it is not a big deal anymore to carry couple of external hdd :D
it all depends on the case scenario, Somehow , it is all a compromise between portability/reliability/speed/price

years ago we used to have swapable disk cages and swap them with friends, it was a burden keeping them with us and getting the back etc, hence not very practical but it was the geeky thing of that time. after that i began setting up my own box, centrally stored stuff and made sure that it was accessible where ever it was having to carry only the absolute minimun with me. usb sticks are good at that but a nightmare to look after. ive had mine end up accidentally in the washing machine several times and on top against all regulations use them temporarily transfer files from a to b which is against all regulations hence tripple the nightmare. that is why terminal access to data is a practical option. for that, my mobile phone suffices, i have putty on it. when i need to do something i just ssh to my box and get it done, if i need to download something i do that as well and just to be on the safe side i have antivirus and firewall running on it! talk about being a paranoid android. well no its like going 15 years back when people surfed the net without comprehension of the idea of firewalls and antivirus. your mobile phone with IP connectivity is just as vulnerable and just as insecure as any other propriatary and open implementation of the IP protocol stack. the inforamtion in your phone is too valuable to let it slip to anothers hand, ofcourse its only this and that but in the hands of someone with bad intentions its something else.. stored data becomes information when it has a designated role, usage and function. its the information that you want to protect, data can be anywhere! meta analogy of storaging.

....

mir

So many intresting ideas to discuss... deserves splitting that post into other posts

cloud storage isnt really an invention, its only rebranding and repackaging what has been out there for a while

Totally agree on that, and cloud storage brings up lot of questions about trust, availability and cost (internet connection costs )

years ago some researchers theorized and experimented on storing data in live network

that is what i meant by juggline with packets
i posted a long time ago about it here : http://www.lebgeeks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4137
check the replies in there , maybe you want to revive the topic and post opinion for more discussion
-- that was a long time ago, maybe it is time to check if any "advances"--

on the long run, we will be going thru the quantum phase first before that

Let us have another "Religious War" on DNA vs Quantum...( i am definetly taking the DNA Computing Side! for storing the data , Long Live Adelman ! ), we really need some new religious wars topics, windows sucks linux rocks is becoming so boring

swapable disk cages...

* heart aching *
* me dies in envy *
y wasn't i born couple of years ago... i kinda envy you having "watched" lot of stuff evolving

ive had mine end up accidentally in the washing machine several times

Trying to clean the USB Litterally :P ... god.. that isn't even in the stupid tech support question jokes !!

stored data becomes information when it has a designated role, usage and function. its the information that you want to protect, data can be anywhere!

Exactly !
and ohhh.. u have to check the situation in lebanon about data !
tons and tons of data available ! ya min y shil

-- enough on quoting you
Something i would like to point out is that we are judgin based on our opinion
for Geeks data is something valuable that needs to be stored on a reliable thing
but for lot of ppl.. data becomes useless in a pretty fast time
to give an example that may illustrate some part of my point
Bashlogic has virtual machines set up on his usb, nuclearcat has a custom made linux distro he runs an ISP on it, little me has Source Code owned by my company, Client Databases and such
Your average user has pics, videos, music, games on his usb
nothing that can't be relatively easily recovered or found again
something that our user will be bored of in some while or he will have it uploaded somewhere and not need it anymore (after sending the pics by email to frnds)
i hope that this example illustrated the different perception of data
then we will have to reconsider about storage

i guess enough for one post :P
this is starting to look like Monster Posts Competition :P

BashLogic

You could rethink a bit with services such as this one:
http://mozy.com/home?ref=0811cfe9&gclid=CKb27rvttZQCFQ-mQwodWFvdTg
note: The above link contains the author referral code, he will be rewarded if you sign-up using it.

i remember years ago back in 1999-2000 there were several startup companies that were creating web based desktops with own set of applications. their main goal was to hamster users to store data in their services, well 110% of these companies are gone and the more traditional terminal services has replaced that. a while after that began the phase of renting software or software licenses as per use and others begaan leasing software, that hype as well vanished only to make a come back as SaaS. the basic things are the same but they get repackaged.

ive had my own server to centrally store data and access it, mozy was not the first to commercialize it but is taking the industry as a big storm. i have used rdp/vnc to connect to my home server for years and back then there was a framework known as tarrantella which got bought out over and over, i think latelly its own by sun or novell (not sure) well that hype passed by but now VPS is making a comeback, all you need to do is set it up and use it.

one thing is common to the above, you can centralize but still you need something to initialize your access to the terminal and/or data. for that the usb stick is handy, unfortunatelly you cant stick it everywhere. often i try to find workarrounds and get softwares loaded at Internet caffe but latelly i have revereted to just hosting an ssh applet on my web server that would facilitiate my surfing, you see, 90% of the caffees restrict what applications you can run, but not what protocols you can run, so vnc and ssh are my best friends to access my data when needed as needed.