Travelling to Amsterdam

mesa177

<context: this was split from another topic />

rolf wrote Maybe a dash to the West might be good too :) Amsterdam or Brussels/Bruges, for example...

Amsterdam is out of the question for me (how can I pray in a place where you can get high just by sniffing the air?). Now Brussels might be a nice idea. I was focusing on Eastern cities because they were the main focus of World War II and the Cold War. Consequently, they would have more landmarks from that era, whereas Brussels was mainly flattened out during World War II. But those waffles might turn me around...

rolf wrote You can find for 300 euros (= $400), with some luck. Try kayak.com. I'm talking Beirut to Berlin, round trip.

Now this is something I should look into. Thanks for the heads up.

rolf wrote Now that is really surprizing me. The cheapest train ticket I could find from Berlin to Leipzig was 18 eur (on interconnex, not DB). DB costs more. I've also heard that Dusseldorf-Berlin, for example, costs like almost 100 euros. There is a "weekend ticket" (which is actually only valid one day) and which is very cheap but you have to be a group of 5 persons to fully take advantage of it.

Yeah that's why I put the range of 25$ to 50$ (18 euros is 24$). It depends on how you book the train and when (early bird prices are cheaper, and booking online costs less), and which train you use (interconnex or DB). The point behind my arrangement of the cities is closing the gap between them, and reducing the cost of the train tickets.

rolf wrote Some cheap alternative there are:
www.mitfahrgelegenheit.de
www.berlinlinienbus.de

I was searching for these websites, thank you!!

quote wrote For a hostel? that's like 30 euros..? I used to pay 10 euros for a bed in a shared dorms. In summer it might be a bit more, but I'm pretty sure you can find at 15 euros ($20).

I don't feel comfortable sharing rooms with strangers, hence the higher prices.

Now the outline is a bit rough and needs some tweaking, but this is what I have so far. If you have any other suggestions rolf I would love to hear them :)

Joe

Amsterdam is out of the question for me (how can I pray in a place where you can get high just by sniffing the air?).

Allow me to react to such an unfair stereotype. That's absolute nonsense. Yes, it's legal to buy and sell weed in the Netherlands, but that doesn't mean that everyone is smoking it all the time! I've been there many times, if anything, people smoke a lot less in Amsterdam than they do in Paris. It's still morally and ethically wrong to get high in public (only tourists do this and it's highly disrespectful) and, being legal and all, you don't have the negative suggestion to want to do it all the time.

Is it fair to say that, since alcohol can be sold freely in Beirut, everyone's drunk all the time, and you get drunk "just by sniffing the air"?

Amsterdam is otherwise a wonderful city. I would strongly recommend to avoid the Centrum, central area of the city, unless you're interested in joining bunches of mindless tourists looking for weed and hookers, and stereotypical coffe shops. Even if you want to get high, avoid this area, it sucks. As soon as you start walking away, you'll find one of the most beautiful cities in Europe I've seen so far.

Here are some things you should try:

Rent a bike for the whole duration of your stay. You'll understand why as soon as you land there.
If you're interested in art and history, you should definitely check out the Rijksmuseum. I'm a (somewhat wannabe) fan of 17th-century Flemish art, it's one of my favorite museums!
Get a canal bike. They're cheap, and incredibly fun. Amsterdam is basically built on top of canals, with some one thousand bridges all across the city. It's such a beautiful way to discover the city.
If you like photography, you should definitely check out Vondelpark. It's one of the most beautiful public parks I've seen, and if you're lucky to be there on a sunny day, you'll find wonderful colors and animation. Locals go there to walk/bike around, play music, play sports, have picnics and generally enjoy some inner-city nature. I love this place!
If, like me, you like beer, go to Leidseplein. It's a wonderful square with good bars, good people and good beer.

I really don't like it when people only see the American tourist stereotype of this wonderful place. I just had to react.

rolf

rahmu wrote If, like me, you like beer, go to Leidseplein. It's a wonderful square with good bars, good people and good beer.

I've been there. I'ts an impressive huge square full of chairs and tables!
I was in Amsterdam with a friend. He stayed two weeks, and most of the time I was doing coffe-shop hopping with him. When he left, I stayed about 2 days more, and I visited the "rest" of the city, (just a small part of it, actually), including Leidsplein...
If I ever go to Amsterdam again, I'll make sure I do the opposite, that is spend 2 days in the coffe shops, and two weeks in the normal part of the city :) so we totally agree on this, I just don't feel the urge to react. But thanks anyway for expressing the idea so well and so eloquently.

PS: That was a long time ago, and i'm a bit fuzzy on the dates (for other reasons too ;) ) so that might very well have been one week and one day!...

mesa177

rahmu wroteI really don't like it when people only see the American tourist stereotype of this wonderful place. I just had to react.

Fair enough, but my judgment is based on input of two close friends who went there. But the issue remains the same, we cannot pray in a place where weed and alcohol is present, here in Beirut or abroad. If I have to avoid a big portion of the city, then I would rather not go there at all. Amsterdam is simply not my cup of tea.

Joe

I'm sorry, I'm not letting this one slide. You don't want to go? Fine! No one is forcing you to do so. But don't distort the things I wrote.

At what point did I say that you should "avoid a big portion of the city"? I only said to avoid Centrum. It's a small part of town, where they attract all the weed tourism, with drug paraphernalia, unhidden coffeeshops and all the things your friends may have told you about. Believe me, it's very easy to avoid. It's like telling you to go to Beirut but avoid Gemmayze if drinking is not your thing. (Full disclosure, I love to drink, but I avoid Gemmayze all the time. Haven't been there in years. It's very easy to do).

Will you be shocked and disgusted if you go to Amsterdam? Most probably yes. But this would have a lot more to do with confirmation bias than the reality of the city.

You've been to Germany before, right? From the multiple times I have been there, and from having several friends there, my own sentiment is that there's as much weed circulating around in Germany (well at least Berlin, Dusseldorf and Karlsruhe) than there is in the Netherlands. You can easily avoid it and do without. Actually, beer and alcohol in general are much more present in Germany (and the Netherlands for that matter) than weed. It's a cultural tradition that goes back for centurie and yes, people drink beer. A lot. But that didn't stop you from going there last time.

EDIT: That last sentence came out a bit wrong. I'm not implying you're a hypocrite. I'm trying to say that if you were okay with Germany, you'll be okay with Amsterdam (and the rest of the country!). Unless you decide to focus on this stupid stereotypical image. If you look for negativity you'll find it. However the same can be easily said about any city.

rolf

Indeed there seems to be a higher proportion of drunk people in Berlin than Amsterdam.
Maybe Amsterdam is a controversial topic for believers, for example you can find a church there next to the red light district, and such things makes believers want to skip it.
It does not seem to be based on a very rational and linear logic, rather beliefs and feelings.

mesa177

rahmu wroteBut don't distort the things I wrote.

I never intended to distort the things you wrote. But when you mentioned Centrum, I imagined a big portion of the city (my bad, I have a tendency to do this sometimes). My sincere apologies if it came off that way.

rahmu wroteWill you be shocked and disgusted if you go to Amsterdam? Most probably yes. But this would have a lot more to do with confirmation bias than the reality of the city.

You've been to Germany before, right? From the multiple times I have been there, and from having several friends there, my own sentiment is that there's as much weed circulating around in Germany (well at least Berlin, Dusseldorf and Karlsruhe) than there is in the Netherlands. You can easily avoid it and do without. Actually, beer and alcohol in general are much more present in Germany (and the Netherlands for that matter) than weed. It's a cultural tradition that goes back for centurie and yes, people drink beer. A lot. But that didn't stop you from going there last time.

This is where the conflict arises, the friends I've mentioned before have been with me to Germany, and they say it is easier to cope with the German consumption of alcohol than Amsterdam's consumption (can we use the word here, maybe smoking?) of weed. Alcohol is generally easier to avoid because it doesn't diffuse into the air, especially in closed areas like restaurants. For the same reason, I avoid places where the hubble-bubble is heavily used. So the question is: if I stay in a hostel, will I have to worry about the weed issue? What about if I have to pray on my way around the city?

@rolf: Muslims don't have problems with churches. As a matter of fact, if we can't find another place to pray, you can pray in a church (with the approval of the pastor of course). Which brings up the next question: may I pray in a church in Amsterdam or do pastors there not allow it?

samer

Alcohol is generally easier to avoid because it doesn't diffuse into the air, especially in closed areas like restaurants

Open consumption is limited to special places called coffeeshops (not to be confused with cafés). In my experience, the probability of encountering someone smoking up (outside a coffeeshop) is probably as high anywhere in western Europe. Don't rule out Amsterdam because of this, it's a beautiful city and has much to offer.

Joe

My sincere apologies if it came off that way.

No offense taken :)

I stay in a hostel, will I have to worry about the weed issue?

It entirely depends on the hostel. Obviously, anything near Centrum will have drugs.

Last time I went there, we rented a room in a wonderful apartment-turned-hostel next to Vondelpark. The rest of the (otherwise very respectable) building was inhabited by upper-middle class locals. The only "coffee shop" around was the bakery that sold actual coffee. It was a little more expensive (30euros per person per night) but definitely worth it. Let me know if you're planning to go so I give you the details.

What about if I have to pray on my way around the city?

I don't know much about praying, but according to Wikipedia, you can find over 25 mosques in Amsterdam. I would try to contact the Muslim community there or the Tourism office to find out which ones would suit you best.

may I pray in a church in Amsterdam or do pastors there not allow it?

Again, I cannot be of much help here. I've never asked a Dutch priest (or any other priest for that matter) if he allows Muslims to pray in his church. I guess it depends on the priests. You could always ask; unless they're incredibly narrow-minded, I cannot imagine a priest saying no to someone looking for a sacred place to pray.

Anyway, again I want to iterate that Amsterdam is more than the stupid stereotype of drugs and prostitution. Yes, you can find them there, but that's such a tiny aspect of the culture. After all, it's the economical and political capital of a major country, with a very rich history and culture. The Dutch ruled Europe, and the world, for centuries. The people there are generally extremely welcoming, interesting and fun to be around. And bicycles, oh bicycles, everywhere.