arithma
I sometimes have the feeling that "work" is just an illusion. That a "job" is an unnecessary artifact of the past pushed against us in a different present.
The more I understand how resources are distributed, and how the necessities of life are produced, the less I am convinced I would have had to work for a living in a less fucked up world.
Instead I should be doing my own research, taking care of my health, running around. Instead we have this artificially limited-opportunity world.
I understand that there are a few limitations to those idealisms, like human greed, laziness, the merits of capitalism to promote advancement. It does feel a bit too drastic though. A least minimum should be present.
Can anyone relate?
ballad
if you can handle living without making your own money then what's the point of working?
Joe
Instead I should be doing my own research, taking care of my health, running around. Instead we have this artificially limited-opportunity world.
I believe it's a matter of life balance. When you think about it for a second, 9-5 day job is plenty. I mean if your average Lebgeeks Programming exercise takes an hour (nice round number) you get 40 of them per week at your job. That's enough to:
- Earn a living.
- Make your job interesting.
9-5 may seem too little by today's standards, but remember one thing: Good programmer are a whole order of magnitude better than average programmers. 40 hours a week in the hand of a genius is enormous. I noticed that (and this is a gross over-generalization) staying late at work often equates with low per hour productivity. I know that personally I subconsciously stay longer at the office when I'm having an unproductive day. Today for example I was on fire. I wrote over 100 lines of code and delivered a project that is due for next week. I even had a few procrastination time on LG. Once it was done, I felt good leaving the office, it was barely 6pm.
Being home at 7pm is enough to:
- do
some sport twice a week.
- do your own programming "for exploration".
- spend time with family.
- In my case, on top of all this, I play a daily hour of music.
And I sleep 6 to 8 hours a night.
Work is not necessarily a bad thing. It becomes terrible if it sucks the life out of you.
If you're talking about turning into a mindless corporate robot, I can completely relate and try as much as I can to prevent this from happening to me.
Thanks for the reminder.
rolf
I have a feeling sometimes that the whole society we live in is superfluous... like to be happy we should live by the nature, no clothes (that's the best part :) ) hunting for our fodd, no ownership, social difficulties, etc. no electricity, pollution, city life stress... unhealthy food (I feel like having a burger right now...)...
I sometimes fantasized about having a place where people could live like that, a big land where people would live without any trace of civilization. But one would have to be born there and totally give up the souvenir of civilisation, even language to really live it... now maybe i'm being too extreme...
On the other end, life in really civilized and developed countries is good too.
Regarding work, it is probably best if it comes on it's own, and you find yourself doing what you love, not for the money or anything else.
Good work is a necessity to feel productive when living in a modern society.
MrClass
Confucius says: "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life."
I do take that quote seriously. It really affects the way you handle work tasks.
Samer99
arithma wroteI sometimes have the feeling that "work" is just an illusion. That a "job" is an unnecessary artifact of the past pushed against us in a different present.
The more I understand how resources are distributed, and how the necessities of life are produced, the less I am convinced I would have had to work for a living in a less fucked up world.
Instead I should be doing my own research, taking care of my health, running around. Instead we have this artificially limited-opportunity world.
In the 21 century, you are not obliged to work according to the law in any country (maybe communist North Korea is the only remaining exception)... In the past, work was required by law in many nations and empires... Feudalism, Slavery, Communism... in all these economical models, work was required by law (in some form or another)...
Now we are living in the capitalism era... nobody will force you to work, but at the same time nobody is forced to work for you (for free), you should give some kind of service in your life so you get money and exchange it with other people's services...
Give services to people (the society) and get services from them in return, that what work is all about, and money is only a tool to make the exchange of services easier.
So if you want to live without clothes, food, health care, house, electricity, internet, car, and even security (because police will not work on protecting you for free)... if want to live a Tarzan in the jungle life then no you don't have to get tired and don't get any job!
Data
Arithma,
I liked your post and thinking, human nowadays to me looks like donkey running after a carrot but I can't even smell it. For years and I am thinking to simplify my life and to be a minimalist but not neglect the necessity of very basic life but to remove all life possessions and commodities. I hate money, computers, mobile phones and all devices if you lose one you get crazy. My relaxation time visiting farms in the villages and look at their life simplicity. We do not need that top luxury life where everything is provided. How people lived in the past without computers and mobile phones. Long time ago I had a contract to work in Gizan or Gazan Saudi Arabia common border with Yemen where electricity runs by generators the public there looks as the stone age I spent happy enjoyable full two years with no Internet, phones or a TV.
xterm
The problem is the idea of living in abundance, that is the illusion right there. It's not as much pushed upon us than it is referred by media and word of mouth.
What was work and what became work is totally different today. I was planning to write out an entire essay on this matter but sadly time (irony?) does not allow it, so i'll keep it short.
Take work for granted and do what you must to be able to live in this fucked up world. Life is not about sitting in front of a computer, buying the new phone, doing research or anything you could possibly think of. Mind you, as much as you find this to be relative, it is. Life is about family, everything else is just icing and luxury. The only true sense of relaxation and happiness can only be found through family (friends included).
As a husband, a father and a friend, I tend to free my time as much as I can to spend it with the people i love. My work goes hand in hand with my ability to survive in this cruel world. My responsibility, the one that I chose is to relieve my family from stress and keep a smile on their face, even if that comes at the cost of my unhappiness at times.
Perhaps only a few people here would be able to relate, but, in due time, you will all be able to see it.
I wish I lived in older times, where work simply meant, keeping a roof on top of our head and food on our table.
Zickar
rahmu wroteI believe it's a matter of life balance. When you think about it for a second, 9-5 day job is plenty. I mean if your average Lebgeeks Programming exercise takes an hour (nice round number) you get 40 of them per week at your job. That's enough to:
- Earn a living.
- Make your job interesting.
Being home at 7pm is enough to:
- do
some sport twice a week.
- do your own programming "for exploration".
- spend time with family.
- In my case, on top of all this, I play a daily hour of music.
And I sleep 6 to 8 hours a night.
That's the problem I'm facing with freelancing , from a Motion Designer Point of view , it really sucks the life out of you and gives you no time to sleep , go out or do anything and its always you trying to catch up with your life but always ends up accepting more work and sucked up more ... I would take a 9-5 Job any day . Sometimes I really wish I could enjoy a regular dinner with my family or sleep at 12 or 1 because I'm usually stuck in my room all the night trying to finish the work and sometimes I even go the whole day without sleep
rtp
I think the main problem lies in people not really understanding themselves and what they seek from this life... People in general are sheep all they can see is another sheep ass in front of them and nothing else...
everybody is going after materialism, thinking happiness lies their... its sad how stupid people are.
The simple reality of the matter is that we need money and without money we really can't live happily... you need money to start a family, go to the hospital, educate your kids, eat , drink , shelter etc... Those things money can buy, but those are not the one that brings you happiness but make way for you to be happy. Without your health you can't be happy...
True happiness lies in this mysterious magical amazing universe, how beautiful the trees swing :)... when you learn to be amazed at this brilliant creation, you would have finally started living... there is an endless beauty in love, loving your family, your friend, your lover... When you realize how lucky you are, to see, hear, walk etc... you are on the right track toward a peaceful , you...
it makes me so sad, to see how people no longer learn to enjoy walking and listing the sound of the wind and the bird flying by ...Having their phone with them 24/7 and now you have those stupid smart mobile that took away every hope of one having some peaceful time on his own...
The trick to this life is to learn to balance everything... work is part of your life and not your life...
give each its fair share of your time...
shant
im working 11 hours a day,not getting enough sleep, i sleep way less than my body demands and i endlessly go up and down stairs the whole day with weight on my hands, life is being sucked, i can't keep up with tech anymore, i can't educate myself either, on the other hand im saving money,too bad i can't spend it on education because i don't have time unless i leave my job, which would suck because i have a lot of advantages with my job that i can't easily find elsewhere, but not having time to educate is the biggest disadvantage
Fischer
William Henry Davies wrote a poem called Leisure
What is this life if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.
No time to stand beneath the boughs
And stare as long as sheep or cows
.
No time to see, when woods we pass,
Where squirrels hide their nuts in grass.
No time to see, in broad daylight,
Streams full of stars, like skies at night.
No time to turn at Beauty's glance,
And watch her feet, how they can dance.
No time to wait till her mouth can
Enrich that smile her eyes began.
A poor life this if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.
in that sense the work is bad, but scientifically, work help us to organize our life, think about work like celery :) or cron job lol, it's a task manager, researches have shown that people without work will lose the sense of time,, will lose their social status, will lose social life and become lonely, won't care about their hygiene , they'll become desperate...
watch this video, a bit off topic though
http://youtu.be/5XD2kNopsUs
solo220
WOW , guys it's stunning how complicated a human being is, we see our selves walking in the wrong direction BUT we keep walking in the same direction :-) like were on autopilot or like were been like puppets ,
i think the key is to really think of your needs are they real or you've been pushed by others comments and words (media) , an example is do you need a luxury car to go from Beirut to Dora ?? ..... well keep the good work and i think that good thoughts will lead to a good ending and a better you.
hussam
It's human nature to move from self sustainability to providing services as a way of living.
All kinds of jobs are services and nothing more. The doctor provides a service. The engineer provides a service by building your home. The taxi driver provides a service by taking you home from the airport. The computer programmer provides a service by writing your programs.
We can easily all buy small pieces of land, grow our own vegetables and eat them all day with the milk our cows make, etc.., never need electricity and just be happy. But then science and human nature intrude into the simple way of life and we start creating services like shops, hospitals, etc..
We discovered we need those services and we come up with a system where services can be exchanged.
The problem is that not every service can exchanged. I can't fix your car in exchange for you making me a pair of shoes if I don't know how to make a pair of shoes. So we came up with money. Money is a system that stores services into credit. The credit is the coins. I can provide a service for someone, get paid coins for it and use them to buy a service from someone else. The whole system can be a bit discouraging and sometimes frustrating but it is the natural evolution of life.
rtp
@hussam true, but now with technology we no longer need to do services , now we have machines that are taking over... now we have an abundant of goods... now the problem is that the monetary system that we created is no longer needed and hopefully the idiots that control the monetary system will let us evolve to the real harmony system with humans which is a technology based system...
the monetary system has made us all slaves to the banks if people can't see that...
solo220
The problem that where been like hypnotized by media and marketing so our needs are unlimited .
Joe
@hussam: my only problem with what you describe is the way the monetary value of a service is attributed. I have no problem with money being a common denominator for service exchange, but how do we measure this exactly? As soon as you assume that the hour of work of a car mechanic is not worth the same as a bio-medical engineer, you're opening the door for the valuation of immaterial things.
Let me try to be more clear: The problem with pure capitalistic money systems is that everything has a value and can be bought and sold at said value. This includes abstract things like "a debt", "a promise", "an option to buy". This craziness was/is at the root of the problem of the global recession.
@rtp: It'd be absolutely foolish to imagine for a second that "machines" can sustain us. You're a programmer; of all people you should be able to see that we sustain the machines, not the other way around. The monetary system is far from perfect, I just mentioned one of my gripes with it; but imagining that we can live off technology without putting in efforts is naive at best.
The bottom line is: if you need work, you need motivation for work. Until someone can come up with something better than money, it's the best thing we have. Also blindly accusing banks of turning us into slaves is misguided, and more like a conspiracy theory than a real understanding of what is going on. Banks need to control the money, sure. But your interests are their interests as well: they are the first ones to suffer from bad economies (despite what the public believes). I'm not saying that all bankers are angels of kindness either, but just, don't shout "It's the banks fault!". The problem is really complicated if you think hard about it...
rtp
@rahmu
machine can do our job... like building cars etc... ofcourse we are still not their, but one day machines will be able to do most of our jobs... am not saying all... we still need scientist to do research and programmers... remember, scientific people don't work for money mainly... but that passions that they love what they do and to help out the human population and stuff... it would be more like a voluntery work in a technology based economy.... its not foolish ... it outside the box and i do believe that is were humanity should be going... monetary system goes against our human nature to do what we like and love... a technology based system will let you do what you love and on the pace that you want etc.... and have time to actually raise children properly instead of them being the maids children, they will actually have a mother and father that will provide the children with the time and effort they deserve to make sure they are raised properly and not end up in front of a tv watching stupid shit...
the venus project
arithma
I was off on my own tangents regarding this subject.
Let's face it. Money is fucking dirty. Money is a lie. Money is control. Money is foreign supremacy. Money is a paper referencing a paper on a cloud referencing a paper in a pocket...
What we need is a Moral driven society. Good deeds will be paid in karma points. Those karma points will allow you to do good for others. That's the whole system. It's a distributed do-good oriented economy, rather than own more stuff economy. Capital is ability to execute to bring benefit to the world (not to one's self).
It's still a vague idea, smoke, a brain fart at best.
The thing is, we need 5% of the people to sustain the life of the rest of us. Think about it. We just need to work 5% of our time (if we share the basic jobs for example). The rest of that time would be dedicated at improving the lives of everyone.
Think space colonies, artificial meat, medicine, sciences, machine intelligence, technology, art, entertainment.
Donating and non-profit organisations would be the main purpose of our economies rather than living on the sidelines. Buying personal yachts, building disgustingly large castles of profanity, would become practically impossible.
Rubz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
The Zeitgeist movement, a new perspective?